For entries of the Meltdown series before December 2010, visit www.keithhunt.com/meltdown.html.
Wednesday, July 23, 2014
TARA CHAPMAN writes to me....MY ANSWER
Well, why did you trust me before? Just because I said I believed in the bible? Lots of people claim that and can't be trusted, ykwim?
I assure you I'm the same exact person with the same exact mind and with the same exact moral compass and guide.
ANSWER: Maybe in parts in are the same, but the context here is "religion" - "faith" - "God, Christ, the Bible;" not your personal moral compass.
I'm concerned, though. Why do you think so highly of yourself, to think you're infallible that I should ask you, that I don't have the sense enough to carry out my own honest investigation?
ANSWER: For starters I'm 40 years your elder. That may mean nothing to you. Second - I've been around the block many more times than you in in my religious life time which was from the age of 7 in a Church of England school and etc. Third - I've studied all these atheists, de-bunk the Bible, de-bunk Jesus Christ guys and gals DECADES AGO, before you were born. Fourth - I've been willing to read and study BOTH sides; atheists to God-believers; Bible de-bunkers to those who answer such de-bunker's arguments. Fifth - I've spent hours and hours, days and weeks and months, and years, decades ago, studying both sides; something I thought at your age you would have done years ago by now. Sixth - the arguments that have turned you away from the Bible and Jesus Christ as ONLY Savior, ARE not KNEW, they have been around for decades; so have the writing of people who have answered those atheists arguments. Seventh - I know what I believe and I know it is the truth of God; yes I am sure of it; yes I know what God's word teaches, yes I know there are no contradictions in God's word; I know as Jesus said, "Thy word is truth" and "The Scripture cannot be broken" - yes I know how to understand the Bible, the important keys to understand the Bible. Yes on ALL THE important subjects of salvation I am infallible, not of my self, but God is infallible, and I know through his grace given me, the truth, THE truth on those subjects, absolutely and unquestionably. Eighth - I know from Creation and the Universe, God exists, and I know he has the power to give us his thoughts and words, to have them written down, yes through men, inspired by his mind, and I know he has the power to preserve his word. Nine - I know in God's word [which you now reject] that he tells us he has always had people, elders, ministers, apostles [ones sent forth], evangelists, pastors, to lead and guide his people. I know Jesus [whom you now reject] said he would build his church and the gates of the grave would never prevail against it; hence his true leaders would always be on this earth somewhere. I know [which you think is me thinking highly of myself] that I am one of those true pastors and teachers of God's word. Ten - I know that it is foretold many would fall away, be deceived, in the last days; I know it is written even some "teachers" of God's truths at one point, would also fall away, and lead many to fall away also. Yes, I know vanity is often the tool that Satan uses to deceive people into thinking they need no one to help them find their way through the maze of deception out there; the ultimate deception being wrong theology, and rejecting the Bible altogether and rejecting Jesus Christ as the ONLY way to eternal life and salvation, which you have written you have done - rejecting the Bible and Christ Jesus as Savior, which you have written in clear words as lies of the Bible.
I'd already know how you'd respond. That is one reason. And that's not honestly investigating.
ANSWER: Oh so you know then that I studied all this on both sides way way way back when. So you know all the books I've read over the last 5 decades. So you know that I know all the clever arguments Bible atheists come up with to get people to reject the Bible as man made, myths, lies; to reject Jesus as only Savior, as the very Son of God. So you know then none of it all has convinced me to do what you have now done, reject it all as so much garbage and lies.
Did you not honestly investigate all the pagan Christian holidays, for example? Was there not anyone who told you that you were wrong when you did that?
ANSWER: Actually no there was no one telling me it was wrong to do that, but then again I was studying BOTH sides; going to the library and reading, studying people writing from both sides. I was studying the atheists and their arguments; I was studying those theologians who answered the atheists arguments. I was studying the theologians who taught this and that, and those who disagreed with their theology and presented a theology different from them; example Sunday or Saturday Sabbath. And etc. and etc. Spent hours and hours burning the midnight oil, some days when not working studying all day long for 8 to 12 hours; weeks upon weeks, months upon months, and years upon years, with my nose in books and articles from both sides; my nose in Strong's Concordance, Greek Lexicons, Bible Commentaries. I was willing to have people there with me from BOTH sides, not in person but in their books and articles, so they were there with me really. So I was willing to ask people, to inquire from people, though it was from what they wrote as to their position, where they stood regarding the Bible, Jesus Christ, and the theologians where they stood regarding this doctrine or that doctrine.
Is it wrong for me to also investigate whether the Jewish holidays are pagan (I've discovered they are) and other such things?
ANSWER: Did you go to what I have written on the Jews and their holidays, what I've discovered decades ago as to what the Jews did to the festivals given to them through Moses [then again as you do not believe the Bible any more kinda useless me saying that I guess], and how the Jews were indeed influences especially by Babylon and hence developed traditions upon traditions, which Jesus warned them about and worshipping God in vain [but as you reject Jesus and the Bible, kinda useless for me to tell you that]. Oh you can discover all kinds of things where the Jews' religion is wrong, traditions they have that are wrong, theology they have that is wrong, and a whole bunch of wrongs they have. But does that mean you throw out the baby with the dirty bath water? I think not.
I UNDERSTAND that people are concerned about me. And I feel sad for you all for that reason. I really do.
ANSWER: Well concern only lasts so long, then as Paul said about such as to what you have done, rejecting the Bible and Jesus, "I've turned them over to Satan....." but again as that comes from the New Testament which you have rejected, I guess it means nothing to you. Don't feel sad for us, we shall get over loosing you; you are not the first to reject the Bible and Jesus, and you will not be the last. My friend Allen who watches a lot of religion on youtube etc. tells me tens of thousands are rejecting the Bible and Jesus every year now, where once they upheld the Bible and Jesus. When I told him about you rejecting it, he said, "Well thousands are doing so all the time, does not surprise me."
But I can't go against my conscience, my moral guide. I can't knowingly live what I believe is a lie, anymore than the rest of you who do not want to live a lie by keeping Christmas and such.
ANSWER: So be it for you. But you must remember we who follow the New Testament as inspired, are also told what and how we should regard those you depart from the faith. We are given very clear verses on the matter, which I shall give at the bottom of this answering you.
So it's nothing to do with I've decided to be bad now. Quite the contrary! I just want to continually live my life seeking truth and continually changing. That doesn't change my heart and mind. My heart and mind are the essence of me. What has changed is the knowledge I possess.
ANSWER: Again it may not mean anything to you now, but the New Testament says, "Ever learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth." I have to question if you REALLY ARE seeking truth. I have to question if you are doing what I did decades ago, and then again starting in 1980....seeking and searching, studying all sides, spending hours upon hours upon hours of study. Change is great if it is change in the right direction....change for me starting in 1980, with re-study of theology, was GREAT.....for it led to truths about God and the Bible, about the doctrines of God that were wonderful to find, and together with truths that were still truths, it was the ultimate in liberty.
No different than coming to the knowledge that Christian holidays are pagan or MSG is bad for your health or that a certain vehicle is terribly unreliable.
ANSWER: There is a world of difference: throwing away the Bible and Jesus as personal and only Savior is far away different than the examples you've just stated. I have believed God exists from age 7. I have believed the Christian Bible is his inspired preserved word to us from 9 or 10 as I read it more. I cannot, it is foreign to me to ever think the Bible is nothing, to be not taken seriously above any other book on earth, and that it is full of lies, including that Jesus is only Savior. It is so foreign to me to think like that, as foreign as thinking I could live on the sun.
Do you see what I'm saying? I'm the same person.
ANSWER: Oh yes in teaching your children, in baking bread, in shopping, in car driving, in saying a friendly hello to people, in being a wife, in not hating anyone, in being faithful to your husband, in having people over for a meal, in visiting your parents, in loving them, in loving your sister, and so the like. But in theology..... your most definitely now not the same.
I know it's considered a big deal, though, because my friends believe it's a big deal that a person no longer believes the bible is the word of God.
ANSWER: WELL YES.....I guess people like me think it's a big deal....big deal indeed. Kinda like loosing an arm or leg. And sure you'll know that is how we feel, how can it be anything less.
I've been there. I know a woman, a very sweet person, who stopped believing it two to three years ago. I went through the same disbelief that you all are going through now. But now I understand.
ANSWER: So that makes you feel better, or should I say, that makes you feel it is kinda alright. So obviously you take comfort in knowing someone else you know gave up believing the Bible is God's inspired word to us.
Well many millions in the USA have stopped believing in the Bible, including just about everyone in the Government.....we are becoming more "secular" each day and month, so you've joined them; no big deal to you it seems.....but as you know to us who have not joined them, it is, but like I've said we'll get over it, let you go [can't stop you anyway] and those who are reading their New Testament will do what I'm doing, admonish you a few times, then have to let you go into the world and the hands of Satan the Devil.
I can handle that some won't understand. I know that people will pray for me, and I'm not offended in the least.
ANSWER: We will for a time, but only a time, then as Paul did at times with some..... turn you over to the Deceiver, and have to do what the New Testament teaches with such who leave the faith, not bother with you and certainly not read your new atheistic de-bunk the Bible, de-bunk Jesus, mind-set.
What I DO consider sad is that you'd not want to talk to me anymore simply on the grounds that I don't believe. If I became immoral, that would be understandable (and happens with people who DO believe). But I'm the same person. I've not told a single person that I can't be their friend, anymore. Just two people have told ME that, though. And that kind of reaction only confirms to me that the bible is not a good book. It's not healthy for people.
ANSWER: Not much good me saying it now you do not believe the Bible, or will not read the New Testament and see what it clearly teaches about what we Christians must do after a period of prayer and admonition towards you. We are told very clearly in passages [they are there for people who still read every word of the New Testament] to hand you over to Satan. Our friendship was as part of the Christian church; one who leaves Christ and the Bible..... we cannot be the same towards you. It is not like you've just changed Christian doctrines; you've turned your back on the Bible as the inspired word of God, and Jesus Christ as Savior and only way to eternal life. Your whole mind-set has now become our enemy. Put it another way, your Gospel has become what we consider "another" Gospel, that is the total enemy of our God, that is the heresy of heresies, the ultimate heresy.
The bible and Quran are the reasons for so much hate and murder. It's due to a I'm-better-than-thou mindset.
And I don't like it.
ANSWER: It is the Bible and Quarn used wrongly that is the much hate and murder around us. We Christians will not hate you; we will though have to obey what it tells us to do [prayer and admonition 2 or 3 times - this is my third time for you] towards someone who leaves the faith and will not repent of such a blatant heresy as you are in right now.
I'm still here to be your friend, if you find me worth talking to.
ANSWER: I'm doing what I'm supposed to do when someone leaves the faith. God still loves you; I and ones like myself still love you; yet I must follow the instructions left to us by what I consider inspired through Paul and John and wherever found in the New Testament.
But please stop projecting to me that you've got it all figured out. It's not healthy for a person to be of that mindset. I SURE don't have it all figured out and don't believe anyone does. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.
ANSWER: Well I guess you do have much more yet to study; I've got 40 years start on you; yes I have figured it all out, even if you do not like me saying it. THIS IS ALL A HEART-ACHE I NEVER THOUGHT I'D HAVE TO DO, THEN AGAIN MY FRIEND ALLEN [A FUNDAMENTAL PROTESTANT] SAYS IT'S HAPPEN BY THE THOUSANDS EVERY MONTH AND YEAR.
NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES TOWARDS THOSE WHO LEAVE THE FAITH, OR COME WITH A GOSPEL THAT IS NOT THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST.
IN THE GOSPELS JESUS SAID HE WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH AND THE GATES OF THE GRAVE WOULD NEVER PREVAIL AGAINST IT. HE SAID HIS FLOCK WOULD BE THE LITTLE FLOCK [GREEK MEANS VERY LITTLE FLOCK]; HE SAID HIS PEOPLE WOULD BE THE SALT OF THE EARTH, JUST SPRINKLED HERE AND THERE. HE SAID BEFORE HE CAME AGAIN DECEPTION WOULD BE SO GREAT, IF IT WAS POSSIBLE EVEN THE ELECT WOULD BE DECEIVED.
EPHESIANS 4: 11,12 "And he gave some, apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."
ACTS 20: 17 "And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church...."
TITUS 1: 5 "For this cause I left thee in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are left undone [margin], and ordain elders in every city, as I have appointed you."
TIMOTHY 3: 1 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of bishop [overlook, leader, elder] he desires a good work."
JAMES 3: 1 "My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater judgment [margin]. See this verse in the Amplified Bible.
ROMANS 16: 17-18 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark [take note] of them which cause divisions and offences, contrary to the doctrine which you have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not the Lord Jesus Christ.....and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."
JESUS SAID THAT UNLESS YOU BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN YOU SHALL IN NO WISE ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
2 CORINTHIANS 2: 17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God we in Christ."
2 CORINTHIANS 6: 14-18 "Be you not unequally yoked together with unbelievers [certainly includes being a very close friend]; for what fellowship has righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what concord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has he that believes with an infidel? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of God; as God has said, I will dwell in them. and walk in them, and I will be theith God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be you separate, says the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and you shall be my sons and daughters says the Lord Almighty."
2 CORINTHIANS 11: 3-4 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another Gospel, which you have not accepted, you bear well with them."
PAUL WAS BERATING THEM FOR PUTTING UP WITH WRONG PEOPLE WITH WRONG IDEAS!!
PAUL WENT ON TO SAY SATAN CAN COME LOOKING VERY NICE, LOOKING BRIGHT, LOOKING LIKE IT IS ALL ANGELIC, ALL JUST FINE AND DANDY...... BUT IT WAS NOT!!
GALATIANS 1: 6-10 "I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel; which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ [I guess some reject it and Christ - Keith Hunt]. But though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed [anathema]. As we said before, so say I again, if any preach any other gospel unto you that that you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet please men, I should not be the servant of Christ."
GALATIANS 2: 11 "BUT WHEN PETER WAS COME TO ANTIOCH, I WITHSTOOD HIM TO THE FACE, BECAUSE HE WAS TO BE BLAMED."
GALATIANS 6: 1, 6, "Brethren, if any man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such a one, in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted......Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teaches in all good things."
EPHESIANS 5: 11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them."
EPHESIANS 5: 17 "Wherefore be you not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is."
EPHESIANS 6: 11-12 "PUT ON THE WHOLE ARMOR OF GOD, THAT YOU MAY BE ABLE TO STAND AGAINST THE WILES OF THE DEVIL. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."
COLOSSIANS 2: 4-8 "And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.....As you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk you in him. Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy, and vain deceit, after the traditions of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
1 THESSALONIANS 5: 12-13 "And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labor among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you. And to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake....."
1 TIMOTHY 1: 19-20 "Holding faith, and a good conscience, which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck. Of whom is Hymeneus and Alexander, whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."
1 TIMOTHY 4: 13-16 "Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.....Take heed unto yourself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this you shall save yourself and them that hear you."
1 TIMOTHY 6: 3-6 "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; he is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness; from such withdraw yourself."
2 TIMOTHY 2: 16-18 "But shun profane and vain babblings for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as does a canker: of whom is Hymeneus and Philetus; who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."
2 TIMOTHY 2: 25-26 "In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance, to the acknowledging of the truth. And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."
2 TIMOTHY 3: 5 "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof; from such turn away."
2 TIMOTHY 3: 7-9 "Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist truth, men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all, as theirs also was."
2 TIMOTHY 3: 15-17 "And that from a child you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus [reminds me of me - Keith Hunt]. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, is is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man [and woman] of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
2 TIMOTHY 4: 2-5 "PREACH the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long-suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch you in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of your ministry."
TITUS 3: 9-10 "But avoid foolish questions and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law: for they are unprofitable and vain. A man [ and woman] that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition REJECT! Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself [herself]."
1 JOHN 2: 18-19 "Little children it is the last time, and as you have heard that anti-christ shall come, even now are there many anti-christs; whereby we know it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they no doubt would have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
1 JOHN 4: 1-3, 6 "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know you the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confessess that Jesus Christ is coming into the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is coming into the flesh is not of God; and this is the spirit of anti-christ, whereof you have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world......We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us; hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error."
2 JOHN 9-11 "Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he has both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him [her] not into your house, neither bid him [her] God speed: for he that bids him [her] God speed is partaker of his [her] evil deeds."
THIS IS THE MOST HEART-ACHING DIALOG I'VE EVER HAD TO DO TOWARDS ANYONE WHO HAS BECOME A DISBELIEVER IN THE INSPIRATION OF THE BIBLE AND JESUS CHRIST AS ONLY SAVIOR.
FOR THOSE WHO STILL HOLD THE BIBLE AS FULLY INSPIRED, THE VERSES JUST QUOTED SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE DOUBTS ABOUT THE BIBLE AND JESUS AS SAVIOR I RECOMMEND THE FOLLOWING BOOKS:
THE CASE FOR A CREATOR by Lee Strobell
THE CASE FOR CHRIST by Lee Strobell
A BOOK CALLED "ALLEGED DISCREPANCIES [CONTRADICTIONS] OF THE BIBLE" IS OBTAINABLE FROM CHRISTIAN BIBLE DISTRIBUTORS. I BELIEVE THERE ARE A FEW OTHER BOOKS THEY MAY HAVE ON THE SAME SUBJECT OF SO-CALLED CONTRADICTIONS OF THE BIBLE ANSWERED.
FOR PROOF FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD THROUGH CREATION I RECOMMEND THE DVDs FROM ILLUSTRA MEDIA - SEE THEIR WEBSITE FOR THEIR VARIOUS DVDs - WWW.illustramedia.com