WOMEN'S ROLE IN THE CHURCH SERVICE......CONTINUED, PART THREE
The Way:
Have you ever been in an audience somewhere before a program
begins, and on all sides of you is the sound of talking from the
people around you, but you can't really tell what anyone is
saying? All you hear is the hum of people talking. That's a good
way of describing laleo. It's not necessarily intelligible speech
- it's just the sound of the human voice.
That's what Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 14. If
you have received the gift of speaking in another language, but
it's a language no one else in the room understands, trying to
address the group in that language is pointless -- no one will
understand what you are saying! All they will hear is the sound
of your voice! That's the "speaking" (laleo) in tongues (glossa,
languages) Paul is referring to in this chapter.
What many people have missed is that Paul is not speaking
about tongues, and then about women. The Greek shows us the
unifying factor: Paul is discussing the subject of laleo, of
useless or non-edifying application of the human voice during
services! What Paul said was that women are not allowed to
laleo, and it is disgraceful for a woman to laleo in the church.
In this passage, Paul is not addressing women preachers at all!
COMMENT:
Wooww! Just wait a minute! Yes, Paul is speaking about tongues
that do not profit anyone if there is no interpreter. BUT he is
also speaking about a whole lot MORE than that. He is speaking
about "prophets" and "prophesying" - about speaking to edify and
instruct. His whole theme in this chapter was that of clear
instructional edification for everyone. In verse 26, he
acknowledges that everyone there had something they could
contribute, so was the magnitude of the gifts of the Spirit in
their congregation. He then sets about giving them instructions
on how order should be within their assembly during the service.
He even lays out for them that only SO MANY (with the gift of
tongues and those who could prophesy - speak the words of the
Lord) could speak and that IN TURN. He tells them there is no
such thing as "well I just could not help but speak, for the
Spirit made me do it" as the spirit of the prophet is subject to
the prophet. The Spirit does not force anyone to speak, it does
not just "take over" a person like a demon sometimes does that
enters an individual, and where that person then has no control
of what and when and how they do things. Paul instructs them God
and His Spirit do not function that way, where confusion is the
end result.
You will notice the LAST thing, before introducing his
instructions concerning women, that he talks about is NOT tongues
but it is the PROPHETS and prophesy. Those who can speak the
words of the Lord either by direct revelation on the spot, or
instruct and teach the revelation of God from the Scriptures. So
if we want to argue any "nearest" context in the Greek, for our
"women keep silence" issue, then it is not tongues but prophesy
that they are to be silent on.
The full truth of the matter is the WHOLE chapter context, that I
have already given above in earlier comments. But a repeat is
worthwhile.
Paul knew most of the congregation at Corinth had some gift of
the Spirit, including the women. They did not control those
gifts, they did not have order in the service, they were
all just letting it hang out as they say, anytime they felt like
it. Paul corrected them on their misuse of the gift of tongues
and how such a gift in the assembly should be used. He instructs
them on some order they should have in their service and even
limits certain gifts to two or three. He understands even the
women had some of these gifts, and knows the question will arise
(especially among the Jews there) about whether they are allowed
to use that vocal gifts in edifying and instructing the
congregation during the time when the church comers together into
one place. It is at the END of all his correcting and
instructions he gave to them that he answers that question, as it
would then cover ALL that he has given instructions on. Paul
answers the question of all women with any gift of being able to
teach, instruct, preach, the words of the Lord, by saying, THEY
are to be SILENT in that regard, even to the point of asking
questions. If they have any questions they are to ask their
husbands at home (a general statement, without going into the
exceptions of those who are not married, divorced or widows).
The Way:
In fact, Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 11:4-5,
regarding men and women praying and prophesying with their heads
covered or uncovered, strongly implies that the women were able
to take part in worship, in praying, and perhaps even in teaching
(one of the definitions of prophesying) in the assembly.
COMMENT:
We have already show and proved that this section of Scripture in
1 Cor. 11 has nothing to do with "when the church comes together
into one place" but it does concern every man and woman in the
body of Christ on an every day basis outside of the church coming
together.
The Way:
Notice this footnote to 1 Corinthians 14:33-40 in the Key
Study Bible: "... it was not an instruction to all the men in
general not to permit any woman to speak in church, but to
husbands to guide and teach their own wives lest they produce
confusion and disturbance in a meeting. ..."
COMMENT:
Now let's use some logic and some common sense as to how Paul
wrote and the before context he wrote in. He had just gone
through expounding and explaining and correcting the errors of
speech the members of the congregation were practicing in the
church coming together at Corinth. He had made it clear there
was not only confusion in their services, but people speaking who
could not be understood by anyone. He then instructs them what
church services should be for - edification for all, and he
further lays down certain rules of how many can speak who have
certain gifts of the Spirit. This he tells them is in order
NOT to have confusion, for, under inspiration of the Spirit he
says, God is not the author of confusion. Plainly, he is telling
them that their confusion in services is from somewhere
else other than God, I think they would have understood where he
was telling them it was from, without naming any names of those
in opposition to the Lord, and who are part of the unseen world
of the created spirits.
If Paul, after saying all this, was now wanting the husbands to
make sure their wives were not part of this confusion, he could
have easily said after verse 33, something like this:
"Husbands, make sure you teach and train your wives at home, so
they will not bring any confusion in speech as they participate
in the teaching and preaching when the church comes together."
That's all he would have needed to say, for IF, and for the sake
of argument we shall say it was so, women were already fully
participating in the teaching, preaching, expounding of the word,
in the Church of God services everywhere, then a simple short
paragraph such as I have given above would have been all that
Paul would have needed to say after verse 33 of chapter 14, to
the husbands and the wives.
There would have been no need to have said anything about "the
law" or about "learning" or about "asking their husbands at home"
for everyone would have known women were on par with men in the
teaching and preaching during services. If there was any problem
with wives bringing in confusion during the teaching service then
a short sentence like above would have been all that Paul needed
to say.
Then such an idea that it was the women who were mainly
responsible for the confusion is a real slap in the face for
them. To think that bringing in talk confusion in the teaching
part of the church service is only a problem that women have, and
need some extra instruction at home under their husbands, to
control and overcome it, is not only a slap in the face towards
women but is a close-minded and blinded view to the fact that MEN
can have just as much a problem with confusion in talk when they
start going at each other and disagreeing over what the word says
or means. Men are just as likely to interrupt each other in
speaking, disagree over the meaning of a verse or verses, get
all emotional, and cause confusion in an open forum (as the
Corinthians obviously were practicing before Paul instructed them
about "order") as women are!
So who were going to teach the men lest they produce confusion
and disturbance in a meeting?
Then why would anyone want to teach another in the homes not to
cause confusion and a disturbance in the church meetings when
Paul had JUST NOW instructed them in the ORDER of things, so
there would be no confusion? He had just given them what he said
were the COMMANDS of the Lord. He had just instructed them in no
uncertain way about those who would give edification talks to the
congregation. He had instructed them HOW NOT TO BE IN CONFUSION!
To think that the women still needed further instruction
on the matter, makes out the women and wives to be either not
listening, not able to read, or just plain slow and dumb. Again,
it would be another insult and slap in the face for women.
Paul had a number of women that were workers with him in the
gospel. He wrote and spoke highly of them in not a few of his
epistles. To understand Paul as teaching and saying what
Zodhiates, the Key Study Bible, and the authors of this article
want you to accept and believe, is not only not understanding
Paul and his theology, but is also filled with much il-logic.
The Way:
"The word 'speak' should be taken to mean 'uttering sounds that
are incoherent and not understood by others.' Paul says that
instead it is better to have silence. Paul uses the same word
'keep silent' to admonish a man [any person, actually] who speaks
in an unknown tongue without an interpreter (vv. 28, 30). "
COMMENT:
So "keep silent" then does mean to "keep silent." Those who
could speak in a tongue were not to speak - keep silent - not
utter sounds of speech, IF they had no interpreter, or could
not interpret for themselves. So Paul said what he meant and
meant what he said. If the tongues speaker was to be silent, not
to speak (which is admitted to mean just that - not say
any words in edification, teaching, preaching, expounding, and
prophesy from the Lord) unless there was an interpreter, then
Paul also meant what he said and said what he meant, when he said
women were to keep silent and that it was not permitted unto them
to speak.
The context as we have seen is edification, teaching, expounding,
revelations, instruction from the Lord, not the mere fact of
saying "hello" to someone, or telling the children to stop making
a noise. Paul then clearly tells us that women are to "keep
silent" in teaching during services where instruction and
edification for the whole congregation is the purpose of coming
together into one place.
The Way:
"What Paul is saying is that only one man [person] must
speak at a time, for if two speak at once, there will be
confusion. ... The issue is not men versus women, but it is
confusion versus order. In God's sight, it makes no difference
who causes the confusion. It is a shame for any woman to bring
confusion into the local church (v.35), even as it is for any man
to do so."
COMMENT:
The issue up to verse 33 is first to correct and instruct about
the prevailing confusion that was present in the church service,
and to lay down rules for order. Then he addresses after all
that, the issue of whether women can use the gifts of the Spirit
they may have, in teaching, preaching, edifying the congregation
from the word or revelations of the Lord, during that part of the
service devoted to that purpose - teaching and edifying from the
Lord to the congregation, which he had just finished addressing
and laying down instruction.
The Way:
And again, as mentioned previously, the word gunaikes
(Strong's #1135, a derivative of gune) in verse 34 should not be
translated "women," but as "wives."
COMMENT:
Not so, it should be as nearly all Greek and English translation
give - women. Paul was meaning all women as shown in 1 Tim. 2,
where the instruction on dress and outward appearance for women
applies to all women, not just the married, and where the
instruction in verses 11,12 applies to all women not only to the
married.
The Way:
Once again, the point of the verse is that wives should
submit to their husbands. Paul isn't teaching the subjection of
women to men in general, but rather that husbands and wives fit
into the family unit ordained by God. Zodhiates writes that "the
duty of the husbands is to restrain their own wives from
out-bursts during the worship service. Whenever Paul speaks of
submissiveness by a woman, it is always on the part of a wife to
her own husband."
COMMENT:
Wow! Read that again where they quote from Zodhiates. Yes, I
guess he wrote it, they quote it. Now, in a world where many
nations had kept their women as practical slaves, and where they
were not permitted to go on to higher education, where they were
often looked upon as part of the "possessions" of a man. Where
the Jews could cast them aside with the stroke of a pen, and go
on to another one, or two, or three (polygamy was still allowed
in Jewish life), it would seem if we adopt the suppositions of
Zodhiates in what Paul was teaching under the sections we are
concerned with in this study, that there were some pretty wild
and powerful and emancipated wives in the Churches of God, who
would really "go to town" as they say, during the church come
togethers. It would seem they would rant and scream and put on
quite the out-bursts during worship service, so they needed to be
restrained in some fashion (maybe holding, maybe standing between
their wife and the person their wife was going to cat-claw, maybe
putting a rope around them and tying them down, maybe some other
type of restraining like a straight jacket) during services.
This was so bad that Paul even had to tell the husbands to teach
them restraint and to teach them to be under the husband's
authority, at home, somehow, in some manner.
Now, how would you do this at home, away from the situation of
many others coming together and where arguments could take place
if there was no order or an open forum was practiced? Would you
get the kids to confront their mother so she was close to an
out-burst, and then teach her to restrain? Would you call in the
neighbors and have them niggle your wife unto she was ready to
explode in vocal vociferousness, and then teach her to restrain?
Would you deliberately pick a fight with her to then teach her to
restrain from throwing the cooking pot at you?
I speak of course with tongue in cheek.
For the sake of the argument, we shall go along with the
supposition and theory of Zodhiates. By the time Paul wrote his
epistles it was just common practice within all the Churches of
God, that women were teaching, preaching, expounding the word of
the Lord in church services just as much as the men were. But
they were getting out of hand, just causing far too much
confusion, bringing too many out-bursts into the worship service,
and so Paul found it needful to tell the husbands to do some
teaching at home, so their wives would be more restrained and
come under their authority and be subject to them, not
usurping their husband's authority. How would he tell her she
had gone too far and was now usurping it over him? Would it be
if she spoke too often, or spoke too fast, or too slow, or too
continuously without a break for three minutes? Would it be if
he thought she was smiling too much at the other men in the
congregation? Or maybe, if she did not smile at him enough times
in any five minute period? Perhaps he would deem she had gone
beyond his authority if she did not allow him to speak, once
every ten minutes at least.
Maybe he would have to restrain her somehow if she laughed too
many times, or got a little emotional over a verse or point of
doctrine or someone else commenting on something.
I can see the people and couples and ministers of the church
spending large amounts of time trying to figure out how to
establish and practice this type of family instruction we are
to believe Paul was teaching to the husbands. Perhaps, when Paul
was alive he wrote it out for them in fine detail, but it got
lost along the way, and we today are left in the dark and left to
fend for ourselves, and figure it all out for ourselves. Oh, the
many hours of wrangling, disputing, arguing, fretting, and
confusion it would take and produce, to probably get nowhere in a
slow hurry. It would probably end up making as much sense as
the words "slow hurry."
The Way:
A DIFFERENT SET-UP
IN THOSE DAYS
But why should there be any extraneous talking such as this?
In our modern congregations, families sit together, and we all
sit respectfully and listen to what is taking place.
In ancient times, however, the seating arrangement with which we
are familiar was probably not what people were using. Note this
passage from the Jewish New Testament commentary in reference to
1 Corinthians 14:
"Sha'ul [Paul] is answering a question (7:1) the Corinthians
asked about wives discussing with their husbands what is being
said while it is being said. This would disturb decorum even
if the wife were sitting next to her husband; but if the
universal Jewish practice of the time (and of Orthodox
congregations today) was followed, wherein women and men are
seated separately in the synagogue, it would obviously be
intolerable to have wives and husbands yelling at each other
across the m 'chitzah (dividing wall)."
COMMENT:
Yes, of course it would be distracting and end in confusion if
many wives were asking their husbands questions about what was
being said, while it was still being said, while the speaker was
still teaching and expounding the word of the Lord. So Paul,
knowing that, also made sure his readers understood that his
directive for women to keep silent while the teaching part of the
service was under way, included even keeping silent concerning
questions their wives may have as the teaching service was under
way. They were to note their questions and ask their husbands for
answers when they were at home. And as I have already pointed
out, Paul was thus upholding the family structure by honoring the
husbands to answer their wive's questions and not the Eldership.
I would suppose if the husband did not know the answer he would
go to the Eldership for it, and then instruct his wife.
The Way:
EDUCATIONAL DIFFERENCES
Another possible explanation for Paul's instructions to
husbands about their wives "speaking out" in the assembly is
this: During Paul's time most women were not very well educated.
Men were the ones that delved deeply into the issues of the day,
especially the issues relating to theology. Imagine a doctrinal
message being given in Corinth that requires a foundational
understanding of the topic. In order for individuals to
contribute to the edification of the assembly, they would need a
deeper understanding of the topic.
There may well have been great differences in the
educational levels among the men and women of the Corinthian
congregation, which led to confusion at times. As it was written
on another occasion, "We have much to say, and it is difficult to
explain, for you have become sluggish in hearing. Although you
should be teachers by this time, you need to have someone teach
you again the basic elements of the utterances of God. You need
milk, (and) not solid food" (Hebrews 5:11-12, The New American
Bible).
COMMENT:
The fault with this reasoning is that it forgets again the
context of the chapter and the context of the church in Corinth.
Here was a congregation blessed with more GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
than probably any other congregation in the Churches of God at
that time. The gifts of the Spirit are given to all (including
women) as the Spirit distributes. What lack of formal education
some of the women in the church had, having a gift of the Spirit
would nullify, and when it would come to teaching and preaching
and expounding the word of the Lord, many a man and woman would
excel if filled with not only the Spirit of the Lord but also a
gift from that Spirit.
The Way:
Imagine that we are the Corinthian congregation. Someone's
wife abruptly interrupts the meeting, on a fairly regular basis,
by asking a question in the middle of the discussion. It may
be a very good question. Yet, it would require such a digression
back into the fundamental levels of the topic that it takes away
from the edification intended for the whole group. To answer and
explain her question would not allow the topic to move forward.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, and occasional review
is good for everyone. The problem arises when this happens
week alter week. Some of the members have expressed feelings of
frustration over this situation.
Because we, in Corinth, wish to resolve this problem, and a
number of other problems we are currently experiencing in our
local fellowship, one of the leaders of the congregation sends a
letter to Paul in order to see how he would want us to handle
these situations.
Paul sends us the letter that would later be known as the
book of 1 Corinthians. In the section of his letter giving
instructions about how our assemblies should be conducted, he
addresses the problem of handling interruptions by wives asking
questions of their husbands during the meeting, a process that
slows down the learning in the assembly.
He tells us, "Let your wives be at peace and in control of
themselves in the assembly, for it is not permitted for them to
be continuously speaking out and causing a disturbance. They are
to be subordinate to their husbands as we are instructed in the
scriptures. If they want to learn more about what is being
discussed, they should ask their husbands later, for it is
totally inappropriate for wives to speak out and disturb the
edification process in the assembly" (authors' paraphrase).
This way, husbands and wives can prepare together, ahead of
time, and discuss the background of a discussion topic, so they
can both be prepared to contribute and learn.
This discussion, and the instructions about husbands and
wives given in 1 Timothy, should help us better to understand the
group dynamics that were taking place at Corinth in the middle of
the first century and how Paul instructed them to properly
conduct their meetings.
COMMENT:
Interesting scenario, but Paul's language is not what the authors
paraphrase. He could have used words like "peace" and
"self-control" and "continually speaking out." He could
have used words like "I hear your women are causing a disturbance
when the church comes together" and words such as, "I hear the
wives in your assembly are prone to out-bursts" or "as for the
wives asking questions while the prophet speaks." He could have
used words to say, "I hear the wives are speaking out and
edification is hindered." The Greek language had words for all
the above. Paul could have used them and written very similar
to what the authors give us in their paraphrase. BUT HE DID NOT!
And for one simple reason. That was not the problem as such, and
it was not the thought Paul was answering.
He was answering the logical question from all the talk on the
gifts of the Spirit that preceded (and all the instruction of
when, and how, and who could speak to edify, and some order given
in the number and control to be exhibited) up to verse 33, and
that question would be: Can the women use their gifts of the
Spirit in the teaching/preaching/expounding of the word to
edification, part of the church service? And Paul's answer was
"no" - they are to remain silent in this, even to the point of
asking no questions to their husbands about what is expounded,
but to save their questions and ask their husbands at home.
The Way:
WHAT LAW IS REFERRED TO?
Next we need to consider the enigmatic phrase, "as the Law
says" (verse 34). What law does Paul mean?
The King James Version really gives womanhood a connotation
of slavery in its translation of verse 34: "Let your women
(gune, wife] keep silence in the churches: for it is not
permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law." Notice how the KJV translators
have added the italicized phrase, "they are commanded." In the
KJV there is definitely a strong, domineering bias showing
through in this verse by the translators. Then, adding the phrase
about "the law" to back up what Paul was saying could make it
sound like the law, Paul, and churchmen in general were down on
women.
COMMENT:
The KJV is under attack once more, made out to be the murderer of
women. The words "they are commanded" are in italicized words in
the KJV, which the KJV tells you at the beginning are not in the
original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. I would find it much
more of a plot and clandestine plan if the scholars of the KJV
had not italicized these words but put them in matching letters
to the rest of the words that are in the Greek. I see no
deliberate bias here on the part of the KJV translators. Paul
was after all backing up his stand on this matter with "the law."
His authority to be so dogmatic on what he had just stated was
not from himself per se, not his idea at all. He had authority to
state what he did concerning women being silent and not using
their spiritual gifts in the teaching/expounding the word of the
Lord, part of the church service, from "the law."
It is interesting that the Greek word Paul chose to use for the
word "permitted" in the KJV carries the overtone of "command"
within it. See the Greek lexicons.
The Way:
But what we are reading is the result of men translating
these verses while harboring the mental concept toward women that
we saw earlier! Yet, what this verse appears to say (in the
KJV) is not fully consistent with what we know of the love of God
that created these relation- ships.
COMMENT:
Was there some terrible mental hate being exhibited by the KJV
translators towards women when they translated verse 34 of 1 Cor.
14 ? Oh, they added some words but told you by putting them in
italics that they are not technically in the Greek. Yet, we have
seen the word "permitted" in the Greek carries the overtone of
"command." The KJV translators were Greek scholars.
How do the modern Greek/English translators Green and Berry,
translate this verse? "Let the women of you in the churches be
silent, not for it is allowed to them to speak, but let them be
subject, as also the law says......a shame for it is for women in
church to speak" verses 34,35, as rendered into English by Jay P.
Green, Sr.
"Women yours in the assembly let them be silent, for it is not
allowed to them to speak; but to be in subjection, according as
also the law says.......for a shame it is for women in assembly
to speak" verses 34, 35, as rendered by George Berry.
As you see not that much different from the KJV. Are Berry and
Green biased towards women?
If you are a Greek scholar and you give a literal translation
from the Greek into English as close as possible going from one
language to another, then you translate as Green and Berry did,
and as the KJV translators did. All three very close to
translating with the same English words.
Of course you may want to say all three had bias towards women.
And I could say look up these verses in dozens of other
translations and you will find many more scholars of Greek with
bias towards women.
God is love, and He personally took a rib from Adam and made from
it a women. He looked at all He had created and made and said it
was "good." He has no bias towards women, He is perfect
righteousness, and it was He who inspired these words in verses
34 and 35 of 1 Cor. 14.
In His love for men and women He also created basic roles for
them, outside the church service and inside the church, when it
comes together into one place.
The Way:
Let's understand what "the law" means.
"Law" is translated from the Greek word nomos (Strong's
#3551), which is always translated "law" in the KJV. However,
nomos can refer to any number of things: the Ten Commandments,
the Torah, Jewish customs and traditions, or even an agreed-upon
procedure. There is, in reality, no clear-cut law in scripture
authorizing men to subjugate women and treat them like children!
COMMENT:
Now we see a psychological mind move here. If you are not
agreeing with the authors' reasoning and teachings on this
matter, and are still agreeing say with me, then you are not
understanding the Scriptures and still following the clandestine
plot supposedly planted in the KJV by the scholars who translated
for King James - and that plot was to subjugate and treat women
like children. I have read the KJV from the age of six years,
that is nearly 50 years ago now, and I have never once found any
passage in it that was teaching anyone to treat women like
children. So if the KJV scholars were trying to put forth that
instruction in some of their translations of the Hebrew and Greek
into English, they surely did a lousy job of it.
The Way:
Paul may have been thinking of Genesis 3:16: "To the woman
he said, I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with
pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will
be for your husband, and he will rule over you."
There is another translation of this verse, which also needs
to be given consideration. It is found in a footnote of Genesis
3:16 in The New Living Translation: "Then he said to the
woman, "You will bear children with intense pain and suffering.
And though you may desire to control your husband, he will be
your master" [Or, "he will have dominion over you."].
According to this footnote, the thrust of the verse implies
that the wife may have a desire to be in control of her husband,
and thus the family. But, the instruction from our Father is that
the husband would have the dominant role in the God-ordained
family. This is more in line with the instructions from a loving
Father of how the marital relationship should be -- the husband
and father of the family having dominion and lovingly guiding and
leading the family. This lends a much better understanding of
this verse than the master/slave connotation the KJV gives. Why
would a wife "desire to control [her] husband"? The reason is
that she has rejected God's revealed knowledge of proper marital
relations. Was Paul referring to Genesis 3:16 when he said,
"as the law says" in I Corinthians 14:34? Perhaps. However, it's
also quite likely that Paul was actually making a non-specific
reference to the God-ordained set of family dynamics, as if to
say,
"You are well aware of how the family should be run, so please
apply that knowledge in this situation."
COMMENT:
The KJV in Gen.3:16 is not a good translation in some ways, but
the NLT given above is also not good in other ways. First of all
many women in the world do NOT have any "pain" in childbirth,
that this verse has taught many to believe. For generations many
have assumed it was natural and God's intent here to make sure
all women have physical pain when giving birth. Such is not the
case at all, and there are thousands upon thousands of women who
have delivered their babies naturally without any physical pain.
The Hebrew words here do not mean physical pain, but that is a
whole new subject. Granty Dick Reid in his ground-breaking book
"Childbirth Without Fear" goes into all this in great detail.
The last part of this verse the NLT has done a much better job in
translating than the KJV, or should I say understanding the
meaning and intent of the Hebrew. Jay Green gives the
literal translation of this verse this way: "to the woman He
said, greatly I will increase your sorrow and your conception, in
sorrow you shall bear sons, and your husband your desire
shall be, and he shall rule over you." So once more we see that
the KJV scholars did a pretty accurate translation of the Hebrew
into English, if we go with the literal translation and not a
paraphrase or interpretive translation.
Looking at all the Bible, and then understanding or interpreting
this verse, I agree with what the authors say above. For an
in-depth study of this I recommend the book before mentioned
called "Man and Woman in Biblical Perspective" by James Hurley.
As some Bible commentators state, when Paul said "the law" here,
he may not have been thinking about any one particular passage of
OT Scripture at all. He may simply have been stating that the
whole general teaching of the OT was that women were never given
the role by God to teach, preach, instruct, expound the word of
the Lord in official congregational gatherings when the church
came together into one place. The general reading of the OT
will clearly show forth that truth and give the reader that
instruction. No woman was ever a part of the official priesthood
of Israel that did all the praying and teaching on the holy
convocations - when the church (Israel was the church in the
wilderness - Acts 7:38) came together into one place.
The Way:
"IN THE CHURCH"?
As we saw above, Paul wrote: "Let your women keep silence in
the churches." What did he mean by this?
Turning to Paul's letter to Titus, we read this: "Likewise,
teach the older women to he reverent in the way they live, not to
be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is
good. Then they can train the younger women to love their
husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy
at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that
no one will malign the word of God" (Titus 2:3-5, NIV).
Paul is instructing Titus to teach the older women to teach
the younger women! Women are to teach! "Yes," some will say,
"but this means at home, not during services." Remember,
though, that the scripture quoted earlier doesn't say that a
woman isn't to "speak during church services," but rather that it
is disgraceful for a woman to laleo in the church. Yet, here we
see that Titus is to instruct older women in the church to
instruct younger women in the church! While the first instance
may be construed to mean that people should not laleo "during
church services," or "during the assembly," this passage in Titus
is clearly talking about women "in the church" -- members of the
Body of Christ -- teaching other women who are also "in the
church"!
COMMENT:
Of course they are going to say Paul was just saying in 1 Cor. 14
women should not "chit-chat" or be "asking questions" to their
husbands or others while some teaching is being presented, as it
causes distraction and hence confusion. But we have more than
just 1 Cor. 14 we also have 1 Tim. 2 on this matter. And as I
have tried to show, the problem was not "chit-chat" from women or
speaking in tongues no one could understand, for Paul had
already talked about that problem and instructed as what to do
about it. If it was confusing chit-chat from the women he then
wanted to correct, he could have easily used language like: "I
hear the women are talking to each other and asking questions to
their husbands while someone is expounding the word of the Lord.
Tell them to stop this talk as it brings confusion to the
assembly."
Now to Titus. Please read carefully chapter two, read chapter one
also if you like. Can you find the word "church" in those
chapters? Can you find the words "when you come together into
one place"? Can you find the words "when the church comes
together"? No! Such words and phrases are just not there. Paul
is instructing Titus about certain things that he should instruct
others to do or not to do. He was to instruct the older men. He
was to instruct the younger men. He was to instruct servants. And
he was to instruct the older women. Yes, he was to tell the
older women they should instruct the younger women in certain
areas of their living. How would Titus do this instruction? Well
it certainly could be in sermons, but it certainly could also be
in private conversations he would have with the older and younger
women, anywhere - after services as they fellowshipped on the
Sabbath, in their homes as he visited them during the week, and
at other convenient times.
There is nothing in Titus to tell us when the older women should
teach the younger women these things mentioned. 1 Cor. 14 and 1
Tim. 2 would rule out that it would be during official church
services of teaching and expounding the word of the Lord, where
the whole church has come together with men present. And that is
what we need to understand, it is when men are present and it is
an official whole church coming together into one place to be
instructed and edified in the expounding of the word of the Lord,
that women are to remain silent in the teaching and expounding of
the word section of the service. And if they have any questions
about what is taught they are to ask their husbands at home.
The older women would not then be teaching the younger women
during this part of the service. Now if it was a woman's
"retreat" week-end and only women were there (as many churches do
hold such week-ends - they also have men only retreat week-ends)
then women would teach women. And older women could teach
younger women at such retreats. The Lord gives no instructions
in His word that prohibits women only retreats for one or more
days. Women would then teach women at these times.
The most natural times for older women to teach the younger women
what Paul wanted them to teach, is of course during more natural
times - everyday times - everyday living as the older and younger
women of the church would meet and fellowship during the week,
outside of the 2 hours or so a week that the church comes
together into one place.
Remember the phrase "church coming together" is not found in
Titus chapter two.
The Way:
Here is a classic example of a phrase that may have more
than one meaning. The only way to really understand what is meant
by "in the church" (Greek: en ekklesia) is to look at the
context and the sentence structure, and note other occurrences of
the phrase.
COMMENT:
I agree, but remember, the phrase "in the church" is not found in
Titus chapter two.
The Way:
Notice these other examples of "en ekklesia":
Acts 7:38: "He (Moses) was in the assembly in the desert,
with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our
fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us."
I Corinthians 6:4: "There-fore, if you have disputes about
such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the
church!"
1 Corinthians 11:18: "In the first place, I hear that when
you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and
to some extent I believe it."
1 Corinthians 12:28: "And in the church God has appointed
first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then
workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those
able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and
those speaking in different kinds of tongues."
I Corinthians 14:19: "But in the church I would rather speak
five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand
words in a tongue."
I Corinthians 14:28: "If there is no interpreter, the
speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and
God."
1 Corinthians 14:35: "If they want to enquire about
something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is
disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."
Ephesians 3:21: "to him (God) be glory in the church and in
Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever!
Amen."
Colossians 4:16: "After this letter has been read to you,
see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that
you in turn read the letter from Leodicea."
As you can see, it's sometimes clear what is meant by this
phrase, but at other times you can't really be sure if it's
referring to the church people or the church gathering -- or
both!
COMMENT:
I agree. It is often the CONTEXT that must tell us how a word is
being used and not the mere "lexicon" meaning. But with that
said, I submit the context of 1 Cor. 14 tells us plainly how Paul
was using the phrase "in the church" or "when you come together
into one place." In fact the last phrase is the interpretation
of how Paul was viewing "in the church" in his discord correction
and instruction he was given them from verse 17 of chapter 11 to
the end of chapter 14. Certainly in chapter 12 and 13 there is a
broader aspect to include the whole body of believers in Christ
everywhere, but there can be no mistaking the much narrower
aspect of the local Corinthian assembly when they came together
into one place, when we read Paul's instructions and corrections
in chapter 11:17-34 and chapter 14. Chapter 11:17-34 is dealing
with that local congregation in the city of Corinth meeting to
observe the memorial of the death of Christ, on one particular
evening of the year at one particular location, as they came
together into one place (verse 20). Chapter 14 likewise. Various
wordings like that of verse 23, 24, 26-31, make it obvious
that Paul was talking about the things that were going on in
their individual church assembly at Corinth, when they met as a
whole church, when they came into one place.
TO BE CONTINUED
Women in the Church? #4
Answers to various arguments
WOMEN'S ROLE IN THE CHURCH SERVICE......CONTINUED, PART FOUR
PAUL'S FEMALE ASSISTANTS
The Way:
One thing we can know for certain, though: Paul did not look
on women as inferior creatures, as did so many men of that day,
and even some today. Notice his instructions to a fellow
servant: "Yes, and I ask you, loyal yoke-fellow, help these women
who have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel along
with Clement and the rest of my fellow-workers, whose names are
in the book of life" (Philippians 4:3). Paul is asking a male, a
loyal yoke-fellow, to aid and assist the women who fought at his
side. He didn't tell the man to take the women's jobs from them
and make them go sit down. Paul asked the man to help them!
COMMENT:
Certainly! No problem. I have already commented that Paul had
women who worked with him in the gospel. Priscilla was one of
them. But we cannot find anywhere that Priscilla ever taught,
preached, expounded the word of the Lord in official church
services, when the church came together as a whole congregation
into one place. I have commented in depth in part one of this
study, that outside those official church gatherings (which may
only total a few hours a week) women have the God giving right to
spread the gospel in whatever way they are led by the Spirit of
God to so spread and teach the gospel, as much as it is the
duty of the men to do.
DOES "SILENT"
MEAN SILENT?
The Way:
Let's return to I Corinthians 14 for a moment, and consider
another aspect of this passage:
"Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not
allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says"
(verse 34). What about remaining silent? What exactly does
that mean?
"Remain silent" (NIV), or "keep silence" (KJV) is translated
from the Greek word sigao(Strong's #4601), which means to keep
silent by holding one's peace. It suggests silence as a
result of a sense of fearing God (out of respect, not out of
terror), or of awe. There is another word, siopao (Strong's
#4623), which has the more traditional meaning of physically
abstaining from speech. That's what we usually tend to think this
passage means -- women should just shut their mouths and be
silent (siopao). But that's not the word Paul used here. It isn't
a matter of saying to the women, "Shuddup!", as much as it means
"Peace, and be still."
COMMENT:
Of course, Paul was using a polite word because he was a polite
man (unless he got angry with false preachers and really
stiff-necked individuals, then he could be not so polite, just
as Jesus was not so polite at times with certain people), and the
topic was one of politeness, instructional, answering problems
and questions. The question being: can women use their spiritual
gifts to teach and preach in congregational services? He was not
answering the problem of women just chit-chat-ing, having
out-bursts of various kinds, or just generally causing confusion.
He was answering a legitimate concern and question and putting a
STOP to something that had been taking place in that Corinth
congregation, and he did it with politeness, as he thought highly
of the women in the body of Christ.
The fact remains that, in the context of this whole chapter, and
from 1 Tim. 2 we can see that Paul was instructing not only that
particular congregation but every congregation in the whole body
of Christ, for all time, including us today, that during the
teaching, edifying, preaching, expounding of the word of the
Lord, part of the official service of the church, the women were
to be still, not participate in a vocal manner in that teaching,
and to be under peace in attitude of mind and disposition. They
were to listen and learn, and if they had any questions about
what was taught they were still to hold their peace and ask their
questions to their husbands at home. He backed all this up with
examples and with the general teaching from the whole law of the
Lord, and then finally told them that what he said was the
commandments of God.
TWO MORE THINGS
The Way:
Wives must also "be in sub-mission" to their husbands. This
phrase is translated from the Greek hupotasso (Strong's #5293),
which means to arrange under, to submit to someone's control, or
to yield to someone's admonition or advice. Militarily, the word
was used in reference to arranging troop divisions. The
non-military application of this word referred to giving in,
cooperating, and assuming a responsibility.
Finally, remember that we learned, in our study of I Timothy
2:12, about the infinitive mood of the verb. When Paul used the
terms "teach" and "have authority," these were written in the
infinitive mood, showing a continuous or repeated action. We
find the same infinitive mood being used here in the verb "speak"
in verses 34 and 35.
COMMENT:
It is the present tense infinitive, continuous or repeated action
in the present. Hence it is still a commandment of the Lord (as
Paul said he spoke the commandments of the Lord), and still in
effect to this day. The women of the body of Christ are to
willingly co-operate, to be willing to give in, assuming and
taking the responsibility that they will come under and be in
sub-mission to the men in this regard, during the teaching and
preaching service, when the church comes together into one place.
That they will sub-mit to the law of the Lord and be peacefully
silent, as they listen and learn from the men during this
relatively short span of time (when compared to the rest of the
hours in the week when they had the right to do as much or more
than the men in teaching and spreading the word of truth),
taking note of their questions and asking their husbands at home.
The Way:
A BETTER TRANSLATION
Shall we put it all together? Let's see how these verses
might be better translated, knowing what we now know about the
Greek. The following is a suggested translation of
1 Corinthians 14:34,35: "Your wives must be at peace in the
assembly. It isn't permitted for them to be continuously talking
or chatting, but rather be responsible and yield themselves to
whatever is taking place, as it shows throughout the scriptures.
And if there is something they want to question their husbands
about, let them ask their husbands later: For it is disgraceful
for wives to be continuously making a disturbance which distracts
the assembly" (1 Corinthians 14:34-35, authors' paraphrase).
We can see that Paul is not referring to women addressing
the congregation in this passage, but rather to wives asking
their husbands a question -- not at all the same thing!
COMMENT:
A paraphrase it is indeed. And a paraphrase that is not what we
know from the Greek. The Greek and its literal rendering is what
we find in the Greek/English Interlinears by Green and Berry.
And they translate very closely to what the scholars of the KJV
translated. The context of 1 Cor. 14 gives the answer to this
"women be silent" issue. And the simple clear instructions to
Timothy in 1 Timothy 2, also gives the truth of the matter.
Putting those two sections of Scripture together (line upon line,
here a little there a little), it is I submit quite simple for
anyone who can read English, without any degree in Hebrew
or Greek, to understand that Paul's instructions (which he called
commandments of the Lord) were that when a church came together
into one place for edification, teaching, expounding of the word
of the Lord, that section of the service was the duty of the men,
and women were to peacefully and submittingly, not to teach but
to remain silent, even to the point of asking no questions during
that time, but keeping them to ask their husbands at home.
The Way:
EDIFICATION
Remember that I Corinthians 14 is speaking about doing those
things that edify the assembly. "Let all things be done unto
edifying" (verse 26). Paul's purpose in writing was to see
that the congregation was edified. (See, for example, verses 5,
12, and 26.) The word "edify" comes from the Greek oikodome
(Strong's #3619), and means to build up or improve others, to
aid in their growth as Christians.
Let's consider verse 26 for a moment. We might consider
this verse to be a description of how services might be run. Paul
wrote: "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every
one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a
revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto
edifying" (verse 26, KJV).
Notice how Paul spoke of "you" and "every one of you." This
verse doesn't separate the congregation into male and female!
Even in the KJV, women or wives are not excluded in this verse!
All of the members had a contribution to make!
COMMENT:
But wait a minute, hold your horses, Paul has not yet finished!
He is telling them that was the way it was WITH THEM! They were
full of the gifts of the Spirit, yes, and that included women as
well as men. They all wanted to "do something" in their service
meeting. They were all participating - both men and women -
participating in a very un-organized manner, interrupting each
other, speaking in a language none could understand, and just
having a good old time confusing everyone, so that some person
off the street who would walk in to their congregational meeting
would think they were all a bunch of "nuts" from mental
institutions. It was AFTER verse 26 that Paul THEN started to
lay down the rules of ORDER and HOW MANY of the prophets and
those with the gift of tongues, could speak. It was AFTER verse
26 that Paul then instructed whether women (who obviously
had up to the point of him writing and correcting and
instructing) could participate in the teaching, preaching, and
expounding of the word of the Lord, during that part of the
edifying portion of the service. What was being done in their
services PRIOR to his corrections and instructions is besides the
point. Many things were being done in their services that were
INCORRECT prior to Paul being told about them and then writing to
them to give corrections and instructions as to HOW IT SHOULD BE,
which he then told them were the commandments of the Lord.
The Way:
Throughout time, and in many places today, many wives, with
their husbands' permission, have had many edifying things to say
in the assembly based on their own personal Bible studies,
and others have appreciated their contributions. Actual
edification took place, the very thing that Paul was the most
concerned about in this chapter. This is why Paul said at the end
of his discourse on decorum in the assembly, "Let all things be
done decently and in order."
COMMENT:
What has been done to edify under whatever situation is not the
point. That is not the issue, as to whether a woman can edify at
any time. The issue is purely to ascertain what the WILL of the
Lord is, what the INSTRUCTION of the Lord is, concerning the
teaching, preaching, expounding of the word of God, during that
part of the service, when all the church comes together into one
place. The issue involves HOW that part of the service
should be conducted (basis outline) and whether women should or
can, as far as GOD is concerned and as far as HE has decreed,
participate in that teaching and expounding of the word of the
Lord to the rest of the congregation gathered into one place.
The Way:
God intended wives, from the days of creation, to be
partners with their husbands, and to contribute to the
edification process that leads to salvation in the Kingdom of
God.
If Paul had been "trashing" women in this chapter, as many
have thought he was doing, then the "order" of a male-dominated
society was indeed being reinforced. However, the "decently"
seems to have fallen by the wayside in that scenario.
COMMENT:
Come on now, give me a break, we are only talking about a few
hours A WEEK FOR PITY SAKE. I have spent much time in part one
to try and show we need to keep all this in proper perspective.
Men and women, Jew and Gentile, are on equal ground when it comes
to Salvation and Rewards. Outside of official church service all
are equal in having freedom to teach and spread the word of the
Lord. I have spent many pages in my book on "church government"
to prove that from the Scriptures. But, all that said, God has
never taken away or cast off the ROLES and FUNCTIONS in certain
aspects of this physical life on earth and in the Church, that He
has always intended and even created from the beginning
(women are still the only ones to bear children, even in the
church). A part of this issue is "ROLES" - what role does a woman
or a man have from God, under this or that situation and
circumstance? The issue is not "trashing" women, or putting them
down. It is: What is their role during the official church
gathering together into one place, and that part of the service
set aside for teaching and preaching to the congregation the word
of the Lord?
The Way:
But we have come to understand that Paul was concerned with
true edification of all the members of the ekklesia, male and
female. When we stop to realize that even women who have
not had the educational opportunities others have had can still
make valuable contributions to the benefit and edification of the
ekklesia, within the context of the Christian family, then we can
begin to proceed decently, and in order, with each member of the
assembly taking his or her rightful place, in Sabbath services
and at home, as a member of the Family of God.
COMMENT:
I agree, no problem, as long as we remember to seek the WILL of
God, as to what He has instructed and directed in each phase of
Sabbath services, Festival observance, Home life, and every part
of a Christian's life from day to day. We are not to seek our
will, nor to think our thoughts, but we are seek and desire and
prove what is the WILL of God in all things (Romans 12:2;
Eph.5:17; 6:6; Phil.2:12; Col.4:12; Heb.13:21; 1 Pet.4:2; 2 Pet.
1:21; 1 Jn. 2:17) and then to OBEY it. Those that so do shall
have Eternal life through Christ Jesus. So it is written, so
shall it be.
The Way:
Part Four:
Putting It Together
"Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed on Him, If you
continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed; and you shall
know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John
8:31-32).
We have learned some "new truth" in this study. Of course,
it isn't the truth that's new, but our under-standing of it that
has been made new. Perhaps we can now realize that we had
been reading something into these scriptures, rather than truly
getting all we could out of them.
COMMENT:
It may not be new truth at all but false deception that was
prophesied to rise at the end time to such heights, that IF it
was possible even the elect would be deceived. So said Jesus,
and so it will be.
The Way:
It had always seemed a shame that women were prevented from
bringing us the benefits of their Bible study, merely because
they were women. It was also a shame, on many occasions, for some
men to hold forth from the pulpit, not because they had anything
of value to say, but because they were men! There have been some
men who should never have been in a position to teach others,
while many women, who are natural teachers and self-made
scholars, have had to sit idly by and have their time wasted
because a man had to do the speaking.
COMMENT:
You must have been in the wrong organization that possibly did
put women down and did not give them the chance to use the Spirit
of God in them. But those churches and Elders who know the truth
of what I have written in both parts of this study, will say with
me that women have every right to use the gifts of the Spirit,
including teaching, and expounding the word of the Lord to ANYONE
- Male or Female, young or old, OUTSIDE OF THE OFFICIAL
GATHERINGS OF THE CHURCH COMING TOGETHER INTO ONE PLACE - which
only amounts to about one and a half hours a week at the most,
for the average Church of God Sabbath meeting. Again, it may
well be true in some organizations, that there was "politics"
before Christianity being displayed and some men given positions
of teaching others that should never have had those positions.
Yet, that fact does not change the word and truth of God on this
issue. Men and organizations may falter and fall and go astray in
certain areas, but God and His word and what He has decreed in
His word on this subject and others, will still remain true. And
He will still want His true children to be obedient to His true
word.
Again, we need to remember to keep this in proper perspective. We
are only talking about a very very small portion of the whole
time of the week, in this study. Where we really need to put the
emphasis is on all the HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME in the week that women
can, and are allowed by God, to "do their own thing for the Lord"
as the Spirit moves them.
The Way:
A TIME TO CHANGE
This article may have brought some of our readers to a
crossroads in their lives. We should all evaluate how we have
fit women in general, and our wives in particular, into the
model we have had for Sabbath services and worshipping our
Creator. Perhaps some of us have needed to view our wives in a
different light. Perhaps now we can.
COMMENT:
I have endeavored in this two part study to help you broaden your
understanding of the woman's role in the Church and Family of
God. I have tried to show you from the Scriptures that there is
a role for both men and women to fulfil WHEN the church comes
TOGETHER INTO ONE PLACE. I have tried to show you what the simple
plain truth really is on that matter. And at the same time help
you understand that OUTSIDE that relatively short span of time on
the Sabbath, God's word shows that women have as much freedom
within the law and word of God to "send forth the Gospel" in a
personal way, as do the men in the church. And believe me, when
it comes to personal evangelism, many women can run circles
around many a man.
The Way:
If any wives who have been unduly subjugated by overbearing
husbands can come to a fuller under-standing of what God expects
in a marriage relationship, then the truth can indeed set them
free. if there are husbands who have held to a wrong belief, who
can now see a need to treat their wives with greater respect and
admiration for what they can bring to the worship of God, in and
out of services, then the truth can set these men free, as well.
This was not intended to be an article about marriage.
However, it would be difficult for some couples to change how
they both participate in worship without finding it necessary to
first reevaluate their relationship with each other in light of
new scriptural understanding.
As it is with any "new wine skins" situation, where
something new doesn't fit easily within something old (Matthew
9:17), there will need to be some adjustments made, some re-
thinking, and perhaps some changes in direction. We need to
examine our old ways, and husbands and wives will need to have
earnest discussions to sort it all out and fit the pieces into
place.
COMMENT:
There will be many who will need to apply what has just been said
above, to what I have written in part one and in this part two,
for I know that many men have been taught and have felt that ALL
the work of teaching and spreading the Gospel, at ALL times, was
just the responsibility of men. Nothing could be further from the
truth! And I hope all men, and all women(who may also have
thought the same) can now see that except for a few hours
or less a week on the Sabbath, women have a very LARGE role in
spreading the word of the Lord.
The Way:
HOW TO APPROACH
NEW UNDERSTANDING
For those who have been taught that the Bible forbade women
from making any contributions to worship services or Bible
studies, this new understanding may represent a radical
departure from orthodoxy. Because it is such a great shift away
from what many of us have believed in the past, some of our
readers may feel uncomfortable about changing the way they
do things. We certainly can't fault someone for not wishing to
make rapid changes in their understanding until they "prove it
for themselves."
If some readers personally feel that women should not
participate in worship, yet see that the scriptures really don't
support that belief, they may wish to ask themselves why they
believe what they believe. If the subjugating of women was
biblical, then it could be justified. But if we now see that the
concept is not biblical after all, why would there be any
reluctance to make a correction in our lives?
COMMENT:
Once more the authors psychologically instill in the reader that
to believe women should remain silent in the official teaching
part of the divine worship service as the church gathers
together, is "subjugating." Such language is designed to leave a
"dirty" taste in the mouth, a type of "racist" attitude is then
portrayed on the part of those who so believe. The subjugating
of women (as the authors use the term) has never been a part of
the will of the Eternal. But the design and will of the Lord has
been from the beginning, that men and women, should fulfil the
roles they were to practice in the home, in the church, and in
society, under various times and situations. One of those times
and situations we have been particularly looking at in this study
- namely those few hours a week when the church gathers together
into one place, and even more specifically - that part of the
service that is devoted to teaching, preaching, and expounding
the word of the Lord, to all the congregation for their
edification.
The Way:
Many times, we believe what we believe out of habit, because
that's what we learned many years ago. If this is the case, then
breaking the habit will take time, and concerted effort,
to erase the old habit and install a new one.
If the reader now sees from the Bible that it is permissible
for a woman to participate in worship, but still believes women
are to be subjugated, perhaps the reader should examine his
or her deepest thoughts and motivations to see where those
feelings originate.
And, of course, if anyone continues to feel that the Bible
does teach that women are to sit silently through services, then
others must respect this sincere belief.
COMMENT:
Again, it is not a case of women being "subjugated" but being
under "subjection" as Paul put it, during this specific time in
worship service, to the men, but more importantly, to the
Almighty God, as He directs. The church as it comes together is
like one large family, and the Eternal has called for the head of
that family (so to speak) to lead in the teaching and
instructing of that family. And in such a situation, the head of
that family at such times, is the man, under Christ Jesus, who is
also portrayed in the Scriptures as male.
Respecting others beliefs has its place, where freedom is given
within the law of God, such as being a meat eater or not being a
meat eater, but in this case, such is not the case, and must give
way to ascertaining the truth of the matter. For what Paul
instructed the church at Corinth was not his ideas, or "do as
you please" but it was the commandments of the Lord.
The Way:
It seems evident that we have not fully understood these and
other verses regarding a woman's role in the ekklesia. In the
past, if we had any questions about how something ought to be
done, we would simply wait for our pastor to tell us what to do
and what to think. Decision-making was much simpler then.
COMMENT:
It would seem today that just about EVERYTHING that was
understood as "truth" in the past, is now coming under attack and
being questioned, even the weekly Sabbath, the Feasts
of God, and even God Himself. Yes, errors have always been
within the Church of God, and we must always move on to grow in
grace and knowledge of Christ Jesus. Yet I have found over the
years that the errors were usually only relatively small (I am
not talking about when ministers were led astray and became
corrupted, then many large errors were evident). The Church of
God (the true elect who remained faithful from corruption) has
been pretty solid and accurate on the large important doctrines
and teachings of our Father in heaven. Jesus, as head of His
Church has guided well His people down through the centuries.
And I believe the core of this issue - the teaching part of
congregational services - the Church of God has observed
correctly from the beginning, from the time of Moses.
The Way:
Today, many readers of "The WAY" are people who have broken
away from the old "corporate church" way of doing things, because
they have seen that often the old way simply did not work. There
may have been order and discipline, but it often was not in
accordance with what the Bible teaches.
COMMENT:
Maybe it did not work in the organization "they" were in. Maybe
it did not work because "that" organization was or became
"cultic" in its mind set, and not only put down women, but put
down men also, until they had to be robotic machines in a "big
brother is watching" you system.
Yet, there have been and still are, organizations like the Church
of God 7th Day, the Seventh Day Adventist church, and others,
that have survived very nicely thank you, by following what Paul
instructed as the commandments of the Lord, in their divine
worship service as they gather together into one place.
The Way:
We have also seen that, as we grow and progress, some people
are not as far along in their understanding as we might be, while
others are ahead of where we are at this time! What should we do?
We shouldn't be impatient for others to catch up to us
immediately, and we hope that those who are ahead of us in
knowledge will wait patiently for us to catch up to them! Each
one of us is at his or her own place along the path that leads to
eternal life.
Paul taught a great many principles of human relations. One
time he wrote that, even if doing something was perfectly all
right, not against any law of God, and totally innocent, he
would refrain from doing it if it offended a brother or sister in
the elkiesia. (See I Corinthians chapters 8 and 10.) We should
consider practicing this kind of love toward one another, so as
not to cause offense.
COMMENT:
On an individual basis over certain matters, such as what Paul
gave examples on, where we can apply his teaching on a one to one
situation, that is all true, BUT that is not possible when we are
dealing with the WHOLE congregation coming together. Under the
issue we are studying, for each to apply what they considered the
truth of the matter on this subject of men and women
participating in the divine teaching section of the church
service, we would again just end up with utter confusion. The
matter must be studied, the truth ascertained, and the leaders of
the church together with the whole congregation must then
declare and practice the truth. The freedom the individual has
regarding this issue is that they can disagree and move to
another group of people where they believe the truth on the
matter before us is being practiced.
The Way:
How can we apply this principle in our own groups?
If there is a group of people meeting together for Sabbaths,
and no one objects to women taking a leadership role in the
meeting, or giving a message, or leading a Bible study, as long
as she is not exerting dominance or authority over her husband,
there is no scripture which condemns this action, as we have
seen. The woman should be able to make her presentation.
COMMENT:
No we have not seen is my submission! We have seen (in part one
and in this study) I submit that women are to remain silent in
the teaching, preaching, expounding of the word of the Lord, part
of the divine service, and if any questions arise while they
listen they are to also remain silent and ask their husbands at
home. We have seen that to interpret and figure out what it
means to "not exert dominance or authority over her husband" if
she should not remain silent but be allowed to teach and preach,
is just about impossible to ascertain, and would lead to constant
disagreements, endless re-adjustments, and many ministerial
conferences, and probably more congregational splits because some
would not agree with others about where to draw the line (some
would be more liberal or conservative than others on the issue).
The Way:
If another group meets for the Sabbath, but the people in
that group object to women speaking or leading a discussion, the
women should not try to force themselves on the group.
COMMENT:
Of course that should be true. And I suppose those husbands and
wives who would strongly object would move along to another
group where women are allowed to preach and expound the word
during congregational services.
The Way:
Suppose several people, from several independent groups,
come together at the Feast of Tabernacles. Should a woman be
scheduled to speak? That may very well depend on whether the
people who are there have already studied the issue and come to
an understanding of the subject, as we have in this article,
before they came to the Feast. It would probably be best not to
schedule any women speakers, at least until it has been
determined if anyone there would be offended if a woman spoke. Or
perhaps fair warning could be given so that anyone who would
be offended could simply skip that session.
COMMENT:
Maybe fair warning would be given way before the Feast began
(that women would be preaching during divine services. I'm not
talking about "workshops" that have nothing to do with the whole
congregation coming together into one place) so those who
disagree with such practice could choose to not attend period.
There are now dozens upon dozens of Feast of Tabernacle sites in
North America and around the world.
The Way:
Once again, we should all remember not to think negatively
about a member of the ekklesia who may have a different outlook
on this issue than we might have. We should not be afraid to
discuss our beliefs with others, but we must not come from the
position that "I'm right and you're wrong, no matter what!"
Rather, our approach should he gentle and loving: "I used
to feel that way, too. But here's what I've found, and here's
what I believe."
COMMENT:
And of course now we have written material such as these two
studies for people to use as they search the Scriptures for the
truth on this matter. There IS A TRUTH, one way is wrong and the
other way is correct. There can be no middle ground! Either women
ARE allowed to teach, preach, and expound the word of the Lord
during divine church worship services, or they are NOT. It is
one or the other, as simple as that. The child of God has
the responsibility to prove from the word of the Lord what God
has decreed and commanded on this issue and on this part of the
church service.
The Way:
Local culture may play a large part in the decision whether
or not to have women speak at services or share their thoughts in
open forum. In the larger cities of the United States, where
most men find themselves working alongside or under college
educated women in the workplace, the idea of a woman presenting a
message at services might be more acceptable. In other parts
of the world, having a woman address the assembly might go
against the strong male dominant social mold in that area. Each
area is unique, as is each assembly. Wise guidance is required in
order to steer the assembly toward all truth and away from
potential problems.
COMMENT:
This issue transcends all nationalities, races, color, social
class, education, work situations, and whatever else the mind of
man can conjure up. The instructions of Paul which were
the commands of the Lord, on this matter, is for ALL the Church
of God, EVERYWHERE, and for ALL generations, in ALL ages. Paul
gave no instructions that each area of the world or each
individual church congregation could decide for themselves how it
would govern this issue.
The Way:
This is a very emotional issue for a great many people. If
you read this article and don't agree with everything we have
said on first reading, that's fine. You might try a second
reading later on. As we pointed out, neither of the extreme
viewpoints is totally correct, but rather there is a high road
down the middle.
COMMENT:
This topic does not have to be emotional at all. If the Spirit of
God dwells in the heart and mind, if the individual loves the
truth, hungers and thirsts after it, wants the truth above
anything else, searches the Scriptures daily to find the will of
the Eternal on this matter and others, is willing to put all the
verses on this topic and any topic together from one end of
the Bible to the other, then as Jesus has promised the Spirit
will lead you into all truth.
The middle road the authors talk about, is simply the road of the
truth, and as Christ said the truth shall indeed set you free
(set you free from error and deception, which in the last
days will be so great only the elect will not be deceived).
The Way:
If we continue on the high road, with the difficult path
that leads to the narrow gate, and if we manage to stay out of
the ditch, and avoid those who would lead us into either ditch,
our voyage along this Way of life will end where we want it to
end - at the doorstep of eternity!
It takes all of us -- male and female, young and old -- to
make up the Body of Christ. We each have our part to play in the
function of the Body. What we have explained here may
help the entire Body to function better!
tw
COMMENT:
It is indeed the straight and narrow road that leads to Eternal
life, and only a few (relatively speaking) will find it in this
age, so said Jesus.
We all do have our part to play in the Church which is the body
of Christ. We all have a ROLE, designed and given as the Spirit
distributes, and that role must be acted upon and practiced
within the laws and commandments and bounds which our Father has
set. By finding His WILL on this and other roles of men and
women which God designed from the beginning, we shall find not
only fulfilment in our physical lives, but we shall also find
peace and joy and love, as we endeavor to understand and put into
practice His will for our personal lives within those roles. And
from it all will come respect and unity for all members of the
Church of God, which is the Family of God.
......................................
Written May 1998
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