CHILD-REARING and PHYSICAL SPANKING??

CHILD-REARING  AND  CAPITAL  PUNISHMENT ?

WE  SHALL  FIRST  JUST  GIVE  THE  VERSES  IN  PROVERBS  ON  THIS  SUBJECT:

"He  that  spareth  his  rod  hateth  his  son: but  he  that  loveth  his  son  chasteneth  him  betimes" (Prov. 13:24).

"Chasten  thy  son  while  there  is  hope,  and  let  not  thy  soul  spare  for  his  crying" (Prov. 19:18).

"Foolishness  is  bound  in  the  heart  of  a  child;  but  the  rod  of  correction  shall  drive  it  far  from  him" (Prov. 22:15).

"Withhold  not  correction  from  the  child:  for  if  thou  beatest  him  with  the  rod,  he  shall  not  die" (Prov. 23:13). 

"The  rod  and  reproof  give  wisdom:  but  a  child  left  to  himself  brings  his  mother  to  shame" (Prov. 29:15).

"Correct  thy  son,  and  he  shall  give  thee  rest,  he  shall  give  delight  unto  thy  soul" (Prov. 29:17).

ONE  argument  on  these  verses  is:  they  are "types  of  speech"  that  is  they  are  words  that  mean  something  other  than  literal.  So  "sparing  the  rod"  means  not  the  physical  cane  to  spank  with,  but  just  a  metaphor  of  "withholding  some  other  form  of  discipline"  -  not  that  no  punishment  is  ever  to  be  withheld,  it  is  not  as  the  proverb  goes  on  to  say: "but  he  that  loves  his  son  chastens  him  betimes"  or  chastens  with  other  means  than  the  spanking  with  the  cane  or  rod  or  I  guess  the  hand, as the argument would go.

With  the  argument  goers  to  "figures  of  speech"  meaning  something  else  than  the  physical,  it  is  pretty  well  impossible  to  debate  with  them.  It  is  like  the  old  famous  or  infamous [personal  view  of  his  ideas  you  may  hold]  ORIGEN,  who  pretty  well  gave  the  whole  Bible  the  "figure  of  speech"  interpretation..... nothing  meant  what  it  said,  all  was  to  be  interpreted  spiritually.  And  so  of  course  the  Bible  can  as  some  have  said,  "Mean  anything  you  want  it  to  mean"  or  "You  can  prove  anything  from  the  Bible"  is  another  way  many  agnostics  and  atheists  answer  to  poohoo  the  Bible.

So  Prov. 19:18  can  also  be  answered  with  "figure  of  speech"  argument.  He  may  be  crying  but  you  continue  to  verbally  correct  him/her.  Or  punish  in  some  other  way  than  with  the  spanking  rod  or  cane.  And  yes,  that  verse  alone  could  be  correctly  taken  to  mean  that  interpretation.

Prov.  22:15  driving  foolishness  out  with  the  rod  of  correction.....  ah  again  if  taken  as  "figure  of  speech"  you  can  make  it  say,  other  correction  other  than  the  physical  spanking.  So  hard  to  argue  the  the  point  from  that  side  of  thinking.

Prov. 23:13  I  submit  is  a  little  harder  for  the  "figures  of  speech"  interpreters.....  but  yes  not  impossible,  for  they  look  upon  the  "beatest  him  with  the  rod"  as .... well  another  figure  of  speech,  that  means  the  rod  is  not  literal  but  a  metaphor  for  a  strong  discipline  of  some  sort,  but  certainly  not  the  literal  cane  or  rod,  and  a  spanking. So  hard  again  to  debate  with  such  "figures  of  speech"  interpreters.

Prov.  29:17  yes  could  lend  itself  to  different  interpretations  of  correction,  as  long  as  it  does  not  include  "spanking"  some  will  argue.

Prov. 29:15  I  submit  is  the  most  difficult  verse  for  the  "no  spanking  whatsoever"  believers.  For  it  combines  the  "rod"  with  "reproof."  Now  while  we  would  all  agree  "reproof"  is  usually  thought  of  as  with  the  mouth  -  verbally.  Then  what  in  this  first  breath  would  "rod"  mean?  I  suppose  the  "figure  of   speech"  understanders  could  argue  "rod"  would  mean  another  punishment  other  than  "words"  -  something  like,  depriving  the  child  for  a  week  of  his/her  favorite  game,  or  show,  or  desert,  or  being  "grounded"  for  a  week  and  missing  out  on  a  favorite  sports  activity.

SO  YES,  the  figures  of  speech  argument  can  figure  it  out  as  some  other  figure,  but  not  the  literal  figure  of  the  words.  So  we  are  again  back  to  old  ORIGEN  and  his  figuring  out  that  the  Bible  said  what  it  did  not  mean,  and  he  was  bright  enough  to  figure  what  the  figure  of  speech  was  all  about.  But  the  problem  is  the  next  ORIGEN  to  come  along  in  history  figures  it  out  some  other  way  than  what  the  original  ORIGEN  figured  it  out. It  gets  to  be  "you  figure  it  out  for  yourself."

A  slippery  path  and  such  a  diverse  one,  that  as  many  poohooers  of  the  Bible  say,  "You  can  make  the  Bible  say  anything  you  want  it  to  say."

BUT  LET'S  SUPPOSE  YOU  ARE .... WELL  KINDA  HALF  WAY  IN  SAYING...."HUMMMM  MAYBE  GOD  DOES  TEACH  SPANKING  AS  A  FORM  OF  CHILD-REARING  AND  CHILD  DISCIPLINE.

SO  IF  YOU  WILL  BE  WILLING  TO  GO  ALONG  WITH  ME  FOR  A  WHILE  ON  THIS:  WE  NOW  NEED  TO  LOOK  AT  THE  DIFFERENT  WORDS  -  "ROD"  -  "SON"  -  "CHILD"

WHY?  WELL  THE  ARGUMENT  COULD  BE  PUT  FORTH,  IT  IS  OLDER  SONS  AND  CHILD,  SAY  OLDER  TEENS,  MAYBE  YOUNG  ADULTS,  WHOM  THE  LAWS  OF  SOCIETIES  ARE  TO  PUNISH  FOR  SOME  CRIMES  WITH  THE  ROD  [ IN  SINGAPORE  THEY  LITERALLY  DO  THIS  VERY  THING  FOR  SOME  CRIMES].

SO  FIRST  "ROD"

There  are  two  main  Hebrew  words  used  for  "rod"  in  the  Old  Testament.  In  Strong's  Concordance  of  the  Bible  they  are  numbers  4294 and  7626. In  the  verse  we  have  looked  at  in  Proverbs  it  is  #7626.

From "The Strongest Strong's Concordance"  we  see: "rod, staff, a stick used to assist walking, discipline, and guidance.......[fig. identification  with  or  under  authority  of  a  leader's  staff],  people,  clan,  family,  -  tribes [84], tribe [57],  rod [34],  sceptre [9],  staff [2],  correction [1],  darts [1],  pen [1],  sceptres [1]."

The  word  #4294  is  basically  the  same  as  #7626.

Certainly  we  have  a  few  proverbs  like  Prov. 10:13  and  Prov. 26:3,  that  sound  like  for  the  older  person,  as  the  Singapore  nation  uses  on  people  for  various  infractions  of  its  laws.

Prov. 14:3  uses  Hebrew  #2415  "rod, switch, shoot, twig..." Strong's.  Again  does  this  mean  the  fool  should  get  a  physical  spanking,  or  some  metaphor  of  discipline.  Well  Singapore  takes  the  first  thought,  if  the  crime  fits.

SO  WE  SEE  THE  WORD  "ROD"  USED  IN  VARIOUS  WAYS  IN  THE  OLD  TESTAMENT.  NOW  IF  SOME  ADMIT  IT  COULD  BE  USED  IN  THE  LITERAL  WAY  AS  THE  LAWS  OF  SINGAPORE  INVOKE ,  THEN  COULD  IT  NOT  BE  TAKEN  IN  A  LITERAL  WAY  WITH  YOUNGER  CHILDREN,  FITTING  FOR  THE  INFRACTION  AND  BADNESS  OF  THE  DEED  OR  ATTITUDE.  CERTAINLY  SINGAPORE'S  USE  OF  THE  ROD  OF  CORRECTION  WOULD  BE  MORE  PAINFUL  FOR  AN  OLDER  TEEN  OR  YOUNG  MAN,  THAN  WHAT  THE  PARENTS  MAY  IMPOSE  ON  A  CHILD.  THAT  WOULD  BE  THE  LOGICAL  AND  CORRECT  BALANCE,  IF  YOU  LIVE  IN  SINGAPORE.

SECOND  "SON"

The  Hebrew  word  for  "son"  used  dozens  and  dozens  of  times  in  the  Old  Testament  is  #1121  in  The  Strongest  Strong's  Concordance,  and  used  in  Proverbs under  discussion.  

Strong's  con.  says: "....son, child (of either gender), descendant, offspring, ...... son [1906], children [1543], sons [21], men [17], .... children's [15], child [10] ......"

It  is  used  for  in  many  different  ways  as  fully  seen  in  "The Strongest Strong's Concordance."

We  note  Gen. 4:25 "....she  bare  a  son  and  called  his  name  Seth"  as  one  example  of  "agelessness"  as  also  it  is  used  many  times  like  "the  son  of....."

You are a son or daughter of  someone  no matter  what  your  age.

So  used  the  word  has  no  age  limit.

THIRD  "CHILD"

There  are  a  number  of  words  in  Hebrew  for  "child"  used  in  the  Old  Testament.  In  Proverbs  it  is  #5288  and  once  5290. 

The  Strongest  Strong's  Concordance  says: "young man, boy, child, ranging in age from infancy to young adulthood......child [44], young men [39], young man [37], lad [32], servant [32], servants [22], young [14], children [7], youth [5], babe [1], boys [1], lads [1], men [1], young men [376 plus], youths [1].

The  word  #5290. Strong's Con. says: "...youth:- youth [2], child's [1]. child [1].

SO  WE  SEE  FROM  THE  HEBREW  THE  WORDS  USED  IN  PROVERBS  WE  ARE  STUDYING,  HAVE  NO  SPECIFIC  AGE  TO  THEM.  THE  CONTEXT  WOULD  GIVE  YOU  A  BASIC  IDEA  OF  THE  AGE,  RANGING  FROM  INFANCY  TO  ADULTHOOD.

......

YESTERDAY  AND  TODAY

Today  we  live  in  an  age  of  child-rearing  in  society  that  was  not  like  yesterday.

I  grew  up  in  the  1940s  and  1950s.  It  was  an  age  when  a  very  good  percentage  of  parents  thought  it  not  strange  at  all  to  "spank"  their  children  if  they  were  being  very  bad,  in  the  home  or  in  public.  It  was  not  uncommon  in  a  shopping  center,  when  a  child  threw  a  temper  tantrum to  see  a  parent  give  the  child  a  good  slap  on  the  back  of  the  leg,  or  on  the  hand,  and  saying  something  like, "If  you  do  not  stop  this  right  now  I  will  take  you  to  the  car  and  warm  your  bottom."

In  a  book  I  have  by  Dale  Evans [wife  of  Roy  Rogers]  she  tells  about  the  shock  of  some  people,  when  they  saw  her [knew  who  she  was  being  famous  and  shopping  locally]  give  one  of  her  children  a  good  spank  on  the  leg  for  being  very  unruly  and  not  listening  to  her  to  smarten  up,  in  a  public  place,  thinking  they  could  get  away  with  being  really  bad  in  public.  Dale  showed  them  they  could  not.

Well  today  this  can  hardly  ever  be  done  by  parents,  as  society  has  thrown  the  pendulum  the  opposite  way,  no  spanking,  and  certainly  not  doing  what  Dale  did  in  public,  to  bring  children  into  line.  Now  today  you  are  "beating"  your  children,  and  doing  what  Dale  did  would  probably  get  the  police  on  their  way [ya  someone  would  call  the  police  for  you  "beating"  your  child].

I  still  see  at  times  when  in  a   Mall,  children  not  just  crying  but  screaming,  and  screaming,  and  screaming.....a  real  temper  tantrum.  I  think  wow  back  in  the  1940s  and  1950s  the  parent  would  in  public  lay  down  the  law  in  no  uncertain  manner.  Today  the  parent/s  just  keep  on  walking  and  the  kid  just  keeps  on  screaming  its  head  off.

Wow  if  I  had  ever  come  close  to  doing  such  a  thing  as  a  child,  I  would  have  been  dealt  with  on  the  spot  or  in  the  car,  if  I  did  not  stop  the  tantrum.

Roy  Rogers,  loved  by  millions  of  kids  around  the  world,  said  he  was  not  opposed  to  the  leather  belt  on  the  bottom  if  needed.  Roy  and  Dale  raised  8  great  children,  who  went  on  to  be  very  fine  individuals,  not  like  some  of  the  children  of  today,  who  come  from  famous  parents,  and  turn  out  to  be  horrible  teens  and  adults.

People  in  my  generation  took  the  Proverbs  on  child  discipline  as  literal..... if  the  situation  warranted  a  spanking,  the  child  got  it.  Now  my  generation  were  also  very  much  more  "religious"  than  the  generation  of  today.

If  I  was  ever  disrespectful  to  my  Mom  when  Dad  was  around.....wow..... he'd  give  me  one  warning,  and  then  look  out,  I  got  straightened  out  by  those  words  of  his  or  I  knew  what  would  come  next.  And  it  would  not  be  pleasant.  

If  out  visiting  with  my  Mom  in  a  relative's  home,  she  would  tell  me,  "Keith  you  do  not  touch  anything  that  is  not  yours."  And  I  sure  knew  I  had  better  not,  for  my  Mom  could  give  a  good  spanking  also. I  knew  her  words  were  backed  up  by  her  hand.  By  the  time  I  was  5  my  Mom  never  had  to spank  me  ever,  I  had  learned  very  well,  and  we  became  very  close  indeed  as  my  Dad  worked  on  a  night  shift  till  I  was  11  years  old.

SCHOOLS  YESTERDAY  AND  TODAY

In  my  generation,  pretty  well  all  schools  had  physical  punishment  discipline.  If  you  got  out  of  line  once  too  many  times  in  school,  you  got  the  strap  on  the  hand/s.

It  was  not  given  very  often,  just  for  real  bad  behavior.  Never  saw  a  girl  get  the  strap;  it  was  us  boys  who  did  and  said  things  that,  done  once  too  often,  you  would  be  brought  to  the  front  and  in  the  sight  of  all  the  class,  given  the  strap.

Now  we  all  lived  through  it,  never  ever  heard  of  anyone  getting  injured.  The  teachers  were  under  control  of  their  emotions,  and  you  were  told  why  you  were  getting  "the  strap"  as  we  kids  called  it.

We  had  40  in  a  class  back  then;  it  was  a  common  number  in  schools  in  England  -  forty  to  a class.  Can  you  envision  the  out-of-control  and  hullabaloo  in  a  class  that  size  if  just  5  or  6  kids  were  doing  their  own  thing.  I  did  hear  about  some  schools  where  the  threat  of  "the  strap"  was  no  threat,  and  sure  enough  the  stories  of  class  mayhem  was  unreal.  It  was  hard  to  believe  it  was  true  but  it  was  indeed,  as  some  I  knew  went  to  such  schools.

Today  in  our  so-called  enlightened  society,  no  teacher  is  allowed  to  "strap"  anyone.  And  with  few  parents  doing  any  physical  punishment  for  out-of-control,  and  real  bad  things  kids  can  do,  you  have  a  generation  of  kids  who  think  there  is  no  physical  consequences  for  doing  bad  things.

Sure  there  are  any  ways  to  discipline;  many  ways  should  be  used;  ah  variety  is  the  spice  of  life  they  say.  And  physical  spanking  should  of  course  be  done,  basically  seldom,  but  in  full  emotional  control.

Sitting  the  child  down  and  explaining  why  this  physical  punishment  has  to  be  given.  Like  in  the  schools  of  my  generation,  after  you  have  gone  over  the  line  one  time  too  many.  So  the  teacher  would  explain  it  to  you.  But  the  strap  came  out.

......

HOW  GOD  PUNISHES

NOW  I  MAY  NOT  HAVE  PROVED  ANYTHING  TO  YOU  IN  ALL  I'VE  SAID.  YOU  COULD  STILL  BE  THINKING  IT'S  ALL  MY  "INTERPRETATION"  OF  PROVERBS,  AND  TODAY  IS  NOT  YESTERDAY.

SO  IT'S  TIME  TO  SEE  HOW  GOD  PUNISHES.  MAYBE  WHEN  I'M  FINISHED  WITH  THIS  YOU  MIGHT  GET  A  MORE  FULLER  PICTURE.

Yes  Christians  know  probably  many  verses  where  God  corrects  us,  through  knowledge,  through  words.  His  word  and  the  words  of  His  servants  in  their  preaching  and  writings. Hence  my  website  is  a  huge "correcting  of  false  ideas  and  doctrines  by  words."  Bringing  out  the  truth  of  God's  way  of  life  through  the  written  word.  A  correction  to  false  beliefs,  by  showing  the  error  of  those  beliefs  and  the teaching  of  God,  the  truth  of  God  on  those  subjects.

We  know  God  sent  prophets  to  warn  Israel  and  Judah;  they  used  words  of  correction;  they  spoke  up,  shouted  out,  the  sin  the  Israelites  were  doing,  and  the  righteousness  of  God.

So  "words"  of  truth  and  correction  have  always  been  used  by  God,  to  try  and  turn  people  around  from  living  wrongly,  to  living  rightly.

But,  if  your  reading  the  Bible,  the  Old  Testament,  you  surely  will  know,  that  there  were  times  when  God  shall  we  say,  ran  out  of  words;  down  came  His  hand  in  no  uncertain  way,  to  punish,  correct,  with  the  rod  of  physical  pain.  And  sometimes  the  physical  pain  inflicted  led  to  DEATH.  Now  of  course  God  can  do  that  for  He  is  able  to  also  RESURRECT  the  dead.  But  at  times  God  did  physical  punishment....usually  indeed  as  a  last  resort.....most  of  the  time  physical  plagues,  hardships,  crop  failure,  pestilence,  and  the  like,  would  be  used  first;  then  if  that  did  not  turn  the  people  around......  well  it  was  then  the  ultimate  physical  punishment.....  it  was  DESTRUCTION  AND  DEATH  AND  CAPTIVITY  TO  ISRAEL'S  ENEMIES.

IT'S  MORE  THAN  INTERESTING  THAT  IN  THE  LAWS  OF  MOSES,  THERE  IS  A  LAW  THAT  STATES  IF  PARENTS  HAVE  A  CHILD [YOUTH]  THAT  IS TOTALLY  UN-RULABLE  THEY  COME  BEFORE  THE  PRIEST,  THE  MATTER  IS  SHOWN,  AND  THE  YOUTH [YOUNG  MAN  AS  CHILDREN  CAN  STILL  BE  TRAINED]  IS  PUT  TO  DEATH.  SOME  WILL  FIND  THIS  HARD  LAW  HARD  TO  BELIEVE,  BUT  IT  IS  THERE,  AND  GOD  DOES  NOT  LOOK  UPON  DEATH  AS  WE  DO,  FOR  HE  IS  ABLE  TO  RESURRECT  THE  DEAD  IN  TIME.  HENCE  GOD  VIEWS  THIS  PHYSICAL  LIFE  FOR  MANKIND  IN  A  MUCH  DIFFERENT  MANNER  THAN  WE  DO.  HENCE  LAWS  TO  BETTER  THIS  PHYSICAL  LIFE  FOR  THOSE  LIVING,  WHILE  THE  DEAD  CAN  BE  RAISED  IN  ANOTHER  AGE,  FOR  A BETTER  SITUATION  FOR  THEM  TO  BE  BETTER  PEOPLE,  AND  HAVE  THEIR  OPPORTUNITY  FOR  SALVATION  ALSO.
THIS  IS  PROBABLY  WHY  WE  FIND  GOD  TELLING  ISRAEL  TO  SOMETIMES  DESTROY  AN  ENTIRE  POPULATION;  THE  EVIL  HAD  SO  DEGENERATED  IN  MIND  AND  HEART,  EVEN  DOWN  TO  THE  CHILDREN.  AGAIN  GOD  DOES  NOT  VIEW  DEATH  AS  WE  DO,  FOR  HE'S  ABLE  TO  RESURRECT  ALL  PEOPLE,  CHILDREN,  YOUTHS,  WHO  HAVE  LIVED.

NOW  THAT'S  THE  OLD  TESTAMENT.  WE  ARE  IN  THE  NEW  TESTAMENT  AGE,  AND  SOME  OF  YOU  MAY  VERY  WELL  BE  SAYING,  THAT  OLD  WAY  IS  GONE.....GOD  IS  SO  LOVING  TOWARDS  HIS  CHILDREN  TODAY,  HE  WOULD  NOT  PUNISH  US  WITH  PHYSICAL  PUNISHMENT.

WELL  IF  YOUR  THINKING  THAT,  YOU  ARE  NOW  GOING  TO  BE  IN  FOR  THE  SURPRISE  OF  YOUR  LIFE.

GET  READY  FOR  A  SHOCK!  MOST  HAVE  READ  IT  BUT  IT'S  PROBABLY  GONE  RIGHT  OVER  THEIR  HEADS.... FLOWN  AWAY  AND  DISAPPEARED  FROM  THEIR  MIND.

TURN  TO  1  CORINTHIANS  11.

It  concerns  the  Passover.  The  church  at  Corinth  coming  together  to  observe  the  Lord's  death.  But  they  were  coming  together  for  this  service  in  the  WRONG  manner.  They  were  making  a meal  out  of  it.  Some  not  sharing  with  others.  They  were  getting  drunk  on  the  wine.  They  were  making  it  all  one  horrible  mess.  Wrong  theology  and  wrong  manner  of  doing  this  remembrance.  They  were  doing  no  examining  of  themselves  or  the  manner  of  observing  the  Lord's  death.  I'm  sure  Paul  or  someone  had  instructed  them  beforetime  on  how  it  should  be  observed.  But  they  were  doing  their  own  thing,  and  in  so  doing  it  was  one  terrible  mess.

Paul  tells  them  to  examine  themselves.  Then  eat  of  the  bread  and  drink  of  the  cup [v.28].  For....Paul  goes  on  to  say  he  that  eats  and  drinks "unworthily" [Greek  is  a  verb  -  doing  word]  -  in  the  wrong  manner  as  he  has  pointed  out  to  them;  eats  and  drinks  to  judgment [see margin].  

They  were  being  judged!  God  was judging  them and  chastening  them [v.32].  If  they  were  to  judge  themselves,  then  they  would  not  need  to  be  judged  by  the  Lord [v.31].

NOW  NOTICE  GOD'S  JUDGMENT!!

"FOR  THIS  CAUSE [not  judging  themselves  and  doing  the  Passover  in  the  right  manner], MANY  ARE  WEAK  AND  SICKLY  AMONG  YOU,  AND  MANY  SLEEP [HAVE  DIED]!" [v.30].

READ  IT  AGAIN  -  MARK  IT.  NEVER  FORGET  IT!

GOD  HAD  TO  JUDGE  THE  CHRISTIANS  AT  CORINTH;  HE  HAD  TO  TRY  AND  CORRECT  THEM;  THEY  HAD  BEEN  TAUGHT  THE  TRUTH  AT  ONE  TIME,  BUT  WERE  NOW  FORSAKING  IT  BIG  TIME!  NOTHING  WAS  GETTING  THROUGH  TO  THEM!  AND  SO  GOD  HAD  NO  OTHER  RECOURSE  IT  SEEMS,  BUT  TO  PUNISH  IN  A  PHYSICAL  WAY!  

HE  HAD  ALLOWED  SICKNESS  TO  COME  ON  THEM!!

BUT  NOT  JUST  SICKNESS  SUFFERING,  BUT  EVEN  HAVING  TO  ALLOW  IT  TO  THE  POINT  OF  THEIR  DEATH!!

PAUL  PULLS  NO  PUNCHES;  HE  TELLS  THEM  GOD  IS  JUDGING  THEM,  BECAUSE  THEY  WOULD  NOT  JUDGE  THEMSELVES.  AND  THAT  PUNISHMENT  OF  HIM  JUDGING  THEM,  WAS  WEAKNESS  AND  SICKNESS  AND  EVEN  DEATH!

NOW  FRIENDS  I  DID  NOT  WRITE  THIS.  IT'S  BEEN  IN  YOUR  NEW  TESTAMENT  FOR  2,000  YEARS.  IT  IS  PLAIN  TO  READ.  NOTHING  VAGE,  NO  FIGURE  OF  SPEECH;  CLEAR  AND  SIMPLE  WORDS.

IF  NEEDED  GOD  WILL  PUNISH  HIS  CHILDREN  IN  NO  UNCERTAIN  A  MANNER ....  EVEN  TO  DEATH!  GOD  DOES  USE  PHYSICAL  PUNISHMENT  ON  HIS  CHILDREN  IF  AS  A  LAST  RESORT  IT  IS  NEEDED.

NOW  WHAT  I  AM  ABOUT  TO  RELATE  TO  YOU  SHOULD  MAKE  THE  HAIRS  ON  THE  BACK  OF  YOUR  NECK  STAND  UP.

I  RELATE  IT  TO  YOU  NOT  BECAUSE  I  AM  SOME  HOLY  RIGHTEOUS  SERVANT  OF  THE  LORD.  I  AM  A  SINNER  LIKE  YOU  ARE.  BUT  WHAT  I  RELATE  SHOWS  THAT  GOD  WILL  IF  NEEDED  JUDGE  IN  THE  MOST  SEVERE  WAY  IN  THIS  LIFE,  TOWARDS  HIS  CHILDREN  THAT  WILL NOT  GET  IT  ANY  OTHER  WAY,  THOUGH  THE   OTHER  WAY  HAS  BEEN  PATIENTLY  GIVEN  TO  THEM.

It was 1990 and my work in Kelowna B.C. had pretty well come to an end - time to move on. I was an independent minister but worked with an old friend who was pastoring the CGI congregation in Penticton, south of Kelowna. We [my wife at the time] got a good deal on selling our house, made some nice money, and decided to head to Florida for the winter, as my wife's mother lived there during the winter months. We bought a small  and  inexpensive duplex near Clearwater, Florida. Lived on one side and rented out the other side. The first Sabbath we were there we went to attend with the CGI congregation in Clearwater.

We sat all through the service; did not expect what came after the service [which should have been for regular members only, but guess God didn't want it that way] - up stood  a  deacon  and  his wife, and so began a tirade of the minister they had had for some years, but now was transfered by his secular work to another part of the USA. He's only been gone for a week. But what a thrashing he was getting, accused of this and that by this deacon and his wife. Some rose to his defense, but it seemed the deacon and his wife hand the upper hand and most of the congregation eating out of it. The whole scene was brutal for children of God to be acting. I could take it no more and stood up and told them I was an ordained minister, and this was not the way to solve problems.

Well of course I [and my wife at the time] were immediately in the bad books with this deacon and his wife. After the meeting was all over, they confronted us and accused us of coming in to take over their congregation, which was laughable if they had not been so serious in their conviction. I told them I was an independent minister and had no such ideas as they were thinking, just there to fellowship and no more.

The situation was so serious and the congregation so split and emotionally  charged, Ron Dart in the CGI asked the minister they had to return and try and solve the problem. He came the following Sabbath, gave a sermon, then in an open forum ....well the stage of discontent was again an open forum. The deacon and his wife just lambasted this minister up and down both sides. Some, maybe most, were with them. The minister did his best to answer their questions and clear the air. It was not to be, the air would not be cleared. The minister left for home with his tail between his legs, emotionally beaten over, spear-headed by this deacon and his wife.

The deacon and his wife continued to cast in private all kinds of bad things about myself and my wife. Very few were friendly towards  us - or unsure of us, so stayed away from us. Some did hold out the hand of fellowship, and we invited them to a supper meal at our place some Sabbath evenings and they invited us to their homes. But overall this deacon and his wife were cutting us to pieces with as many as they could. 

After a few months, trying to show everyone we were no threat to them, just wanted to fellowship, and that was all. Tying to show we had no hidden agenda in our pocket. But it was a loosing battle for us.

I did as Matthew 18 tells us to do if we have trouble with a brother or sister. Went to them directly to try and show we were not what they were accusing us of. It did not good, they would only continue to do as much damage as possible towards us. I was keeping Ron Dart informed as to what was going on, and that the problem was with a very angry and emotionally spiteful deacon and his wife.

I sat down to meditate on the sordid situation. I would write a letter to them, explaining in words on paper that we were not clandestinely trying to do what they were telling others we were trying to do.

At the end of this letter I said to the Lord, "Well I've done what your word says Lord about having problems with a brother. I'm giving this letter to them, and I must LEAVE IT  IN  OUR  HANDS  HOW  YOU  WILL  DEAL  WITH  IT."

Passover time came and Ron Dart came to that Passover to conduct services, and bring sermons on the holy days of Unleavened Bread.  Ron and I talked together, after services, so all could see, Ron accepted me as a brother in Christ. Most of the congregation warmed up to us, some apologizing to us and asking could they start on a new page with us. Of course we did.

But this deacon and his wife continued after Ron Dart left....continued where they had left off.....very  destructive towards my wife and I, and still seeding  evil  where they could,  in  the  congregation.  The congregation was far from being settled with quietness and peaceful emotions.

My wife and I said goodbye in the Spring and went up to Canada.

But at the Christmas  break we decided to return to our duplex for a few weeks or more.

We immediately, on the first Sabbath, set off to attend  the CGI congregation. We pulled into the parking  lot, got out of our car and was met by others with very warm greetings; met at the entrance of the rented accommodations for services with, smiling faces and, "Good  to  see  you  both"  "Very  good  to  see you"  and  warm  handshakes.

I was taken a back by it all, and I guess the look on my face told that story.

"Did you nor hear?" I was asked.

"No, I've heard nothing since we left you last Spring."

"Well," the main man now in charge [knew him during the winter, and was kinda off-standing with us, but now friendly as could be]. "Well....shortly after you left the deacon came down with cancer from head to his toes.....he was dead within a week. And his wife....you'd never know her; she's as quiet and respectful and humble, as you could ever wish."
Wow  indeed  was  she  ever,  before,  during,  and  after  the  service,  you'd  never  have  known  it  was  the  same  lady.

I  WAS  SHOCKED.  I  HAD  ASKED  THE  LORD  THAT  I  NOW  HAD  TO  LEAVE  IT  IN  HIS  HANDS,  TO  DEAL  WITH  THOSE  WHO  WERE  SO  HARMFUL  TO  US,  AND  TO  THE  CONGREGATION.

I  NEVER  IN  MY  WILDEST  DREAMS,  EVER  THOUGHT  GOD  WOULD  DO  JUST  THAT  AND  STRIKE  THE  MAN  DEAD,  WITH  PAINFUL  CANCER  FROM  HEAD  TO  TOES....AND  KILL  HIM!

THE  LESSON..... IF  YOU  WILL  NOT  BE  CORRECTED  VERBALLY;  IF  YOU  REFUSE  TO  SEE  LIGHT  WHEN  IT  IS  GIVEN  TO  YOU;  IF  YOU  REFUSE  TO  MEND  YOUR  WAYS;  IF  YOUR  SIN  TOWARDS  OTHERS  IS  SO  GREAT,  THEN  GOD  MAY  BRING  UPON  YOU  WHAT  HE  BROUGHT  UPON  SOME  OF  THE  CORINTHIANS  I  TALKED  ABOUT....SICKNESS  AND  EVEN  DEATH!!

GOD  DOES  USE  FROM  TIME  TO  TIME  PHYSICAL  PUNISHMENT  IF  THE  SITUATION  IS  SERIOUS  ENOUGH  TO  WARRANT  IT!

CAN  WE  AS  PARENTS  DO  ANY  LESS?

GOD  DOES  NOT  WANT  TO  USE  PHYSICAL  PUNISHMENT,  BUT  WHEN  ALL  ELSE  FAILS  OR  THE  SIN  IS  SO  BAD  IT  DEMANDS  IT;  MAKE  NO  MISTAKE  HE  WILL  USE  IT.

CAN  WE  DO  ANY  LESS  IN  REARING  OUR  CHILDREN?

..........

With  all  this  said.  Let  me  again  tell  you,  physical  punishment  is  not  automatic.  Some  children  are  so  very  easy  to  teach  and  train, physical  punishment  may  never  have  to  be  used  on  them. They  are  quick  to  repent, even  with  tears,  and  very  seldom  do  bad  things.  I  known  such  children.  So  the  idea  that  every  child  sometime  in  their  young  lives  needs  to  have  a  spanking,  is  a  very  wrong  idea.  It  just  is  not  always  so.

Then  a  physical  spanking  should  always  been  done  with  the  parent  in  full  control  of  their  emotions.  Telling  the  child  why  it  is  necessary;  and  administering  it  in  love,  and  only  a  red  sting  should  be  seen,  anything  other  than  that  is  too  much.  Let  me  repeat  so  there  is  NO  misunderstanding..... a  red  sting  is  ALL  that  should  be  seen.

Then  after  the  spanking  love  should  be  shown,  telling  them  you  really  do  love  them,  and  just  want  to  see  them  grow  up  to  be  fine  respectful  people  that  never  get  into  trouble  with  the  authorities  of  the  land.

Remember  also  there  are  other  forms  of  punishment,  that  parents  know  how  to  use.

Physical  spanking  should  be  the  last  resort,  when  the  child  has  just  gone  one  too  many  times  over  the  line,  or  has  done  something  so  horribly  bad  a  spanking  is  warranted.

The  bottom  line  as  I've  proved  to  you,  is  -  God  does  use  physical  spanking  of  sorts,  if  He  must  with  His  children.

Many  miss  the  part  of  the  Lord's  Prayer  as  it  has  been  called....the  part..... "lead  us  not  into  temptation."  Well  God  does  not  tempt  anyone  as  James  was  inspired  to  write.  It  should  be  understood  as  "lead  us  not  into  trails  and  tests  and  punishment."  In  other  words  we  pray  that  God  will  help  us  learn  our  lessons  quickly;  admit  our  mistakes;  be  willing  to  be  corrected,  BEFORE  God  has  to  deal  with  us  as  He  had  to  deal  with  many  of  the Corinthians  on  the  Passover  situation  of  1  Corinthians  11.

You  know  it  really  is  "a  stitch  in  time  saves  nine."

HAVE  I  CONVINCED  YOU  ON  THIS  SUBJECT?  FOR  SOME  MAYBE  NOT,  BUT  I  CAN  TELL  YOU  AS  A  SERVANT  OF  THE  MOST  HIGH,  IT  IS  THE  TRUTH  OF  THE  MATTER.

Keith Hunt - May 2014.